Poll on 'Killing guards raises the Alert bar'

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cacmeister wrote:

I wish people would invest in a league for at least a week before they shit on it. GGG created something nuanced and quite elegant in its challenge and we the consumer cried because we couldn’t be bothered to try it and critically think to overcome its obstacles first before complaining that it was unfair and too hard.

Thanks for reading. Remember some times the worst thing that can happen to a person is that you get exactly what you wish for.

People did figure out how to overcome it though, create a second character that went 100% defense and not kill anything

IMHO, I do agree that the alert level for killing mobs gave flavor to the identity of the league. But that mechanic (alert level) was also already existed in the other aspect of the league mechanic which was an opening of the chest. So I believe removing the penalties in killing mobs & just putting the decision making what they can get as a reward is the more appropriate & can benefit more people. This way you also don't penalize certain builds & you don't limit how players can play Heist but at the same time still give them opportunity to think or choose for their reward.

Some people may make call it "dumbing down" the league mechanic, but I think & based on PoE history reception in the past leagues, people really just much prefer simplicity.

This is also no different from the nets in Bestiary. The nets was also one of the flavor of the Bestairy league back then, but since it's became a common source of frustration & alienating some portion of the player base, GGG got to let it go.

I don't think it will really dumb it down too much. The only difference will be that you won't be running as far from unavoidable guards as possible until they lose aggro, which I will argue doesn't resemble proper stealth gameplay.

I'd actually rather see them increase the alert for killing guards a bit and lower alert level for opening chests.

Alert raising must be removed from killing guards just because there so many builds which can't go around without killing everything (considering 50% of aoe skills mechanics, summoners, any bow build, 90% of builds in a total).

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boyandroid wrote:

IMHO, I do agree that the alert level for killing mobs gave flavor to the identity of the league. But that mechanic (alert level) was also already existed in the other aspect of the league mechanic which was an opening of the chest. So I believe removing the penalties in killing mobs & just putting the decision making what they can get as a reward is the more appropriate & can benefit more people. This way you also don't penalize certain builds & you don't limit how players can play Heist but at the same time still give them opportunity to think or choose for their reward.

There are options on the poll for this. The thing to keep in mind is that the league actually already offers a lot of tools to reduce our Alert levels significantly - at endgame to effectively tone it down by 100% i.e. it is no longer a concern, including from chests - so removing it from killing without rebalancing it elsewhere may very well trivialize the whole thing.

This is why in my post I recommended people check out the thread I linked or watch Grimro's video before making a call on it. There's already a LOT we can do about Alert, so even if you're someone who doesn't believe it makes sense to have from kills, it may behoove you to consider if maybe it needs some rebalancing on other fronts once the Alert from kills mechanic is removed.

Nope, no, nay this league... maybe the next one!

I feel like the better solution was to not adjust alert at all, but to change it so you are forced to kill enemies to progress through the level. Maybe a shielded door right before the objective that requires killing X enemies to open. The issue is the people trying to abuse the mechanic by skipping past enemies and then complaining it sucks, while ignoring that you are supposed to be killing enemies and the league progression mechanics are designed around that.

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judikator wrote:

Alert raising must be removed from killing guards just because there so many builds which can't go around without killing everything (considering 50% of aoe skills mechanics, summoners, any bow build, 90% of builds in a total).

exactly

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cacmeister wrote:

TLDR:

I wish people would invest in a league for at least a week before they shit on it. GGG created something nuanced and quite elegant in its challenge and we the consumer cried because we couldn’t be bothered to try it and critically think to overcome its obstacles first before complaining that it was unfair and too hard.

people did think and did overcome its obstacles. the way they did it was to run past all the mobs so they had 30+ agro mobs chasing them shouting and shooting stuff everywhere and just didnt kill them so they could open all the chests.

there was nothing elegant or nuanced about it, the conclusion of how to best tackle the challenge was just degenerate, idiotic gameplay that wasnt really fun and made absolutely no thematic sense at all until you got the items and levels to essentially turn off the gameplay all together and revert it back to a simple killathon.

the reality is the mechanics dont exist in this game to have elegant, nuanced heist gameplay in this fashion. this is not dishonoured, theres no scope to make something cool like that in what essentially boils down to a top down shooter with painfully basic controls given a 3 month development window.




you can have a compelling alert system that gives meaning and gameplay challenges within poe, but this was not it, i think it needs to work on other factors. if this was a normal game they would have a year or 2 to develop this system, the 3 months wasnt enough and now we probably end up with an alert system that doesnt have the impact it should as a result of this aspect of it falling short. it is what it is, the worlds been turned upside down by this virus and ggg still managed to crank out a league, i dunno how they manage this stuff at the best of times given a 3 month window.

i think the best thing is what they have done, remove the nonsense for now because it was causing really silly gameplay and then lets hope theres a longer term plan to see how the change plays out and where they can take the alert system from here.