[3.21] Aegis Incinerate Elementalist - Tank with over 10mil Shaper DPS!

After tinkering a bit with PoB trying to fit 2nd Cluster setup, I might try something like this, after getting all the necessary uniques first of course: https://pobb.in/6-Bs69DGDD1S (1st tree, 2nd I kinda ruined there)

with Aspect of the Spider you'd get 18.5m DPS there, but I decided to not enable it (-1 painful mod to get on the gloves) and use Discipline (instead of Vaal RF or via unset ring) adding a lot of ES and more than doubling (!) ES Leech/On Hit Rate. If I am literally unkillable at that point then I might reconsider and go for Aspect of the Spider. Also not sure how important Arcane Heroism, might shuffle two points from somewhere else to get it from the cluster. Or even more shuffling for additional Medium Cluster too...

Might use a different 2nd Large Cluster base/nodes as well - need to think about it more, as I'd like to diversify damage a bit cause with two Essence Rush nodes the difference in damage when you leech or dont is really big and IIRC there's archnem mod preventing you from leeching.

EDIT: oh yeah, that's when I used questionable Precision node (2 points) and forgot to undo it, I guess those can go into Arcane Heroism. Though while you dont really need accuracy rating from Precision, it still adds decent DPS via other stats hmm.

EDIT2: also lowkey thinking of going into asylum tree for curse res (up to 50% or 30+corrupted blood immunity) / chaos res (easier gearing) - so many options, which only adds to my interest in the build.

I also have a few questions to understand PoB calculations better.

What is the source of Exposure in the build. Are the gloves the only source that triggers it here? Just thinking where I'd get it in case I'd decide to run Asenath sometimes.

I'm aware of three other potential sources:

Wave on conviction - feels a bit of a waste of a gem slot and need to be put into CWDT I guess
Awakened Fire Penetration gem - at most, temporary solution
Master of Fire or Corrosive Elements (12% Fire Damage Large Cluster node) - seems like a decent option when going 2 large clusters, though it will cost a bit especially if you need some additional stats on the cluster

Or is Exposure has the same additive mod as the effect of combustion/flammability? EDIT: Seems those are different if I understand PoB Calcs properly, e.g. I remove gloves and the whole -41 goes poof from the Skill Hit Damage (Fire) Calc, not just -11 from the gloves itself so you do need something to trigger "Fire Exposure" explicitly and comb/flam ain't that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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How is Fire exposure calculated properly in the build? E.g. here me before and after removing Fire Mastery ("Fire Exposure applies -5% fire res"):

https://imgur.com/a/S7plmKA

I see there's a value manually (I think) set in the config, where is that number coming from and why is it the same as the number from item gauntlets (which is 11% fire exposure and then all the bonuses exposure bonuses I assume). Isn't the "Config" -41 number inflating the DPS big time since according to the screenshot/PoB Calcs it counts both manual config number and the number from items/masteries as far as I'm undestanding this. Or, well, I can just wait till I export my own character on 90-95 level and click all the appropriate checkboxes in Calc and compare then.

"

MrCinos wrote:

After tinkering a bit with PoB trying to fit 2nd Cluster setup, I might try something like this, after getting all the necessary uniques first of course: https://pobb.in/6-Bs69DGDD1S (1st tree, 2nd I kinda ruined there)

with Aspect of the Spider you'd get 18.5m DPS there, but I decided to not enable it (-1 painful mod to get on the gloves) and use Discipline (instead of Vaal RF or via unset ring) adding a lot of ES and more than doubling (!) ES Leech/On Hit Rate. If I am literally unkillable at that point then I might reconsider and go for Aspect of the Spider. Also not sure how important Arcane Heroism, might shuffle two points from somewhere else to get it from the cluster. Or even more shuffling for additional Medium Cluster too...

Might use a different 2nd Large Cluster base/nodes as well - need to think about it more, as I'd like to diversify damage a bit cause with two Essence Rush nodes the difference in damage when you leech or dont is really big and IIRC there's archnem mod preventing you from leeching.

EDIT: oh yeah, that's when I used questionable Precision node (2 points) and forgot to undo it, I guess those can go into Arcane Heroism. Though while you dont really need accuracy rating from Precision, it still adds decent DPS via other stats hmm.

EDIT2: also lowkey thinking of going into asylum tree for curse res (up to 50% or 30+corrupted blood immunity) / chaos res (easier gearing) - so many options, which only adds to my interest in the build.

hello!!

You have lots of good thoughts in here! Please keep sharing.

One item I would recommend you keep your eye on when experimenting is whether or not you can sustain Incinerate. Being able to sustain Incinerate is absolutely crucial to our DPS.

Right now this POB can not sustain channeling Incinerate. Your cast speed and mana cost are out stripping your mana regeneration and you will start leaking mana. And when that happens, when our other skills proc, you will find that out of the blue, you will stop channeling Incinerate and your DPS will drop through the floor.

There is no general rule of thumb we follow but you do want to make sure your mana regen has a decent amount of headroom that it out paces what Incin will used.

In your build you can adjust this by getting another Channeling Skills have -3/4 to Mana Cost on the second ring.

"

MrCinos wrote:

I also have a few questions to understand PoB calculations better.

What is the source of Exposure in the build. Are the gloves the only source that triggers it here? Just thinking where I'd get it in case I'd decide to run Asenath sometimes.

I'm aware of three other potential sources:

Wave on conviction - feels a bit of a waste of a gem slot and need to be put into CWDT I guess
Awakened Fire Penetration gem - at most, temporary solution
Master of Fire or Corrosive Elements (12% Fire Damage Large Cluster node) - seems like a decent option when going 2 large clusters, though it will cost a bit especially if you need some additional stats on the cluster

---

How is Fire exposure calculated properly in the build? E.g. here me before and after removing Fire Mastery ("Fire Exposure applies -5% fire res"):

https://imgur.com/a/S7plmKA

I see there's a value manually (I think) set in the config, where is that number coming from and why is it the same as the number from item gauntlets (which is 11% fire exposure and then all the bonuses exposure bonuses I assume). Isn't the "Config" -41 number inflating the DPS big time since according to the screenshot/PoB Calcs it counts both manual config number and the number from items/masteries as far as I'm undestanding this. Or, well, I can just wait till I export my own character on 90-95 level and click all the appropriate checkboxes in Calc and compare then.

I am not an expert on exposure, so maybe @Claeysken or anyone else can chime in here and make sure my answers are correct

=============


Fire Exposure does come from the gloves.

Before you get that stat on the gloves, you can use Wave of Exposure in a CWDT set up (this is how we did it in this build before the eldritch implicts were in the game). I will add this information to the POB notes section:

"Before you acquire the Fire Exposure in the gloves, you can use Wave of Conviction in the CWDT setup (you can replace Ele Prolif). WOC can stay on level 1. After you get the Fire Exposure implicit on the gloves, you can take WOC out and put Ele Prolif back in the build"


Awakened Fire Pen works fine too but you are very likely to have it on your gloves by that time (it is not that hard to get).

=======

I believe the -41 comes from here:

-11 on the Gloves
-5 on the mastery
-25 from Mastermind of Discord

Multiple sources of Exposure DO NOT stack but these three are not all sources of exposure. The first (-11) is the only source of exposure. The other 2 simply add to that number (they are not forms of exposure themselves, they only manipulate the final exposure number).

I don't know if this answers your question or not...

"

AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

hello!!

You have lots of good thoughts in here! Please keep sharing.

One item I would recommend you keep your eye on when experimenting is whether or not you can sustain Incinerate. Being able to sustain Incinerate is absolutely crucial to our DPS.

Yep, that's one thing I had no idea how to gauge. Only now just found where I can see my actual cast speed in the PoB, lol. Definitely need some actual practise with the skill and w/e other skill setup I'll have on me to judge things properly or at least do it easier. Thanks!

"

I am not an expert on exposure, so maybe @Claeysken can chime in here. I believe the -41 comes from here:

-11 on the Gloves
-5 on the mastery
-25 from Mastermind of Discord

Multiple sources of Exposure DO NOT stack but these three are not all sources of exposure. The first (-11) is the only source of exposure. The other 2 simply add to that number (they are not forms of exposure themselves, they only manipulate the final exposure number). At least I assume so looking at some of the other PoBs using fire skills.

I don't know if this answers your question or not...

It does make things clear, thank you.

As for the -41 value for Enemy Fire resistance in "Config" shouldn't it be (+)50 which is a default Pinnacle Boss value and then in the "Calcs" it'd start substracting res from it via all the exposure/curses/etc resulting in actual DPS. Otherwise it starts at -41% as if it's a default value and then doubles down on it via exposure/etc stats. At least I assume so looking at some of the other PoBs with fire skills, e.g. Pohx's RF PoB for reference: https://imgur.com/a/qHNm3u8

Correct me if I'm wrong.

"

MrCinos wrote:

As for the -41 value for Enemy Fire resistance in "Config" shouldn't it be (+)50 which is a default Pinnacle Boss value and then in the "Calcs" it'd start substracting res from it via all the exposure/curses/etc resulting in actual DPS. Otherwise it starts at -41% as if it's a default value and then doubles down on it via exposure/etc stats. At least I assume so looking at some of the other PoBs with fire skills, e.g. Pohx's RF PoB for reference: https://imgur.com/a/qHNm3u8

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I do not understand why the -41 is in that config area. Claey made that config I think.

With my limited knowledge, I expected that to be a 50 as well......

I will wait until Claey chimes and and then make the fix if needed...I don't have a good understanding of how POB calculates exposure.

"

AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

With my limited knowledge, I expected that to be a 50 as well......

I will wait until Claey chimes and and then make the fix if needed...I don't have a good understanding of how POB calculates exposure.

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it should be the case after importing my 100% Fire Chieftan PoB from last league, picking Pinnacle boss in Config and looking at the calculation: Calcs>Socket Group:Tectonic Slam>hover over first orange table, row MH Eff. DPS Mod (Fire) and look at Enemy Modifiers.

Maybe since the PoB is old and was updated through several leagues, Claey could've changed the value manually for testing (or just unknowingly at the time) purposes and forget about it cause it happened a long time ago. Again, sorry if I'm wrong about this though, lol. Hope I don't sound too nitpicky or demanding. Gotta wait for him to chime in indeed.

"

MrCinos wrote:

"

AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

With my limited knowledge, I expected that to be a 50 as well......

I will wait until Claey chimes and and then make the fix if needed...I don't have a good understanding of how POB calculates exposure.

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it should be the case after importing my 100% Fire Chieftan PoB from last league, picking Pinnacle boss in Config and looking at the calculation: Calcs>Socket Group:Tectonic Slam>hover over first orange table, row MH Eff. DPS Mod (Fire) and look at Enemy Modifiers.

Maybe since the PoB is old and was updated through several leagues, Claey could've changed the value manually for testing (or just unknowingly at the time) purposes and forget about it cause it happened a long time ago. Again, sorry if I'm wrong about this though, lol. Hope I don't sound too nitpicky or demanding. Gotta wait for him to chime in indeed.

we require as many eyes on the build as possible. It has gone through a billion changes over the leagues, and Claey is always tinkering in Standard as well. What you are doing is invaluable to the thread so please please keep providing info and questioning anything you see.

I have come to the conclusion that POE is so complex that you can never have too many ideas or thoughts on any one topic. I have been playing since I think 2013 and rarely does a day go by when I don't learn something new.

"

MrCinos wrote:

with Aspect of the Spider you'd get 18.5m DPS there, but I decided to not enable it (-1 painful mod to get on the gloves) and use Discipline

I got side tracked with the resistance issue but I wanted to come back to this to provide you a little history.

For the first few leagues we played this build, we focused (and stacked) a ton of ES/life. Having an 8500+ pool was a goal.

But as the leagues moved on, GGG kept giving us new layers of defense to add. Eventually POB started to highlight EHP (Effective Hit Pool), which did a very nice job summing up all of the layers of defense.

Once we started to focus on the EHP number, instead of the ES+Life number, we immediately noticed that Discipline was not increasing the EHP number enough to justify its 35% mana cost. And at that point we started to look for other solutions as Discipline fell out of favor in our build.

That all being said, if you have a way to squeeze in Discipline using a second small cluster, in place of Aspect (which I agree will be VERY VERY expensive to get on good gloves), please do so!

"

AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

"

MrCinos wrote:

As for the -41 value for Enemy Fire resistance in "Config" shouldn't it be (+)50 which is a default Pinnacle Boss value and then in the "Calcs" it'd start substracting res from it via all the exposure/curses/etc resulting in actual DPS. Otherwise it starts at -41% as if it's a default value and then doubles down on it via exposure/etc stats. At least I assume so looking at some of the other PoBs with fire skills, e.g. Pohx's RF PoB for reference: https://imgur.com/a/qHNm3u8

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I do not understand why the -41 is in that config area. Claey made that config I think.

With my limited knowledge, I expected that to be a 50 as well......

I will wait until Claey chimes and and then make the fix if needed...I don't have a good understanding of how POB calculates exposure.

Hey guys,

I have no idea why the -41% was there. I think I might have done some manual changes in the past to correctly calculate Exposure stuff, but PoB seems to do that automatically.

So sorry about this.

Gonna update the thread.