[3.21] Aegis Incinerate Elementalist - Tank with over 10mil Shaper DPS!

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

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I don't think we ever want to self cast Combustion IMO.

I think Combustion should be in either a trigger setup with Reckoning or in CWDT setup, both of which will cause Combustion to go off quite often since we are always getting hit or blocking.

For an elementalist if you don't cast WoC/combustion yourself then you don't get the bonus of Mastermind of Discord. POB can't tell if you self cast or not (it will give you the bonus for a WoC in a CWDT setup), so your POB number would be wrong.

Edit: Just realize you said combustion instead of WoC. you are right then, it would be more consistent to have combustion linked to a trigger skill, since presumably those would activate more than your once in a while WoC.

Just so we are clear here:

Combustion lowers fire resistance but I don't think it relates directly to the key word "exposure" and as such won't effect Mastermind of Discord.

WOC as you mentioned is directly tied to Mastermind of Discord as it has the "exposure" key word.

I have a feeling I have been making a mistake the last two leagues. I did not realize I was suppose to self cast WOC to get the effects of Mastermind of Discord. I thought a trigger would do it. I will research this more so I can educate myself.

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

I have a feeling I have been making a mistake the last two leagues. I did not realize I was suppose to self cast WOC to get the effects of Mastermind of Discord. I thought a trigger would do it. I will research this more so I can educate myself.

hmm, now I am really confused.

I went on to reddit and asked and the answer was that as long as minions are not applying the exposure, it will work fine with a trigger like CWDT.

@Claeysken do you have any extra info about this?

These two statements in Mastermind of Discord could be read either way

"Exposure you inflict.." - This sounds like you need to self cast

"Exposure applied by the player character..." This sounds like a triggered skill would work.

The more I am looking the more people are saying a triggered CWDT will work (as does a totem that casts WOC) for Mastermind of Discord.

I will keep researching......

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

The more I am looking the more people are saying a triggered CWDT will work (as does a totem that casts WOC) for Mastermind of Discord.

I will keep researching......

ok, some one fully explained it to me.

In the old version of Mastermind of Discord, it was required that you selfcast your skill to get the effects of Mastermind of Discord. But when Mastermind of Discord was reworked recently, this need to self cast was removed from the ascendency.

So it looks like we can use a trigger skill like CWDT with WOC and still get the Mastermind of Discord effects.

As an interesting follow up to this discussion, I found this comment from GGG.

It does not effect this build but it also shows how flexible the new Mastermind of Discord is.

Scroll down to see GGG's response

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3009469/page/1

I don't think your GGG's URL proves that triggered CWDT will work for Mastermind of Discord (MOD from now). The GGG thread is talking about "nearby mobs have exposure". If you go all the way back to when I was last active, I posted that I found out using a Heraldry cluster jewel works, because it is your "nearby" that is applying the exposure, thus MOD works

Edit: Also we've been discussing "combustion" but the combustion debuff is separate from exposure. We can apply the combustion debuff via CWDT or reckoning, and this is unreleased to MOD. It's the exposure from Wave of Conviction that is unclear when it relates to MOD.

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

I don't think your GGG's URL proves that triggered CWDT will work for Mastermind of Discord (MOD from now).

yes I know that. That is why I specifically said that thread does not effect this build. I was just adding it on to my other posts as a point of interest.

I don't know what to tell you about the trigger though. I have had 15 different experts on the game tell me it does work and not a single person has told me it does not work.

And multiple people have explained to me that when the ascendency changed recently, it went from having to self cast/self attack to allowing triggers to work.

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

Edit: Also we've been discussing "combustion" but the combustion debuff is separate from exposure. We can apply the combustion debuff via CWDT or reckoning, and this is unreleased to MOD. It's the exposure from Wave of Conviction that is unclear when it relates to MOD.

That seems almost identical to what I said above (first post at this link)

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2865430/page/115

Given that I don't have more definitive evidence that triggers do not work (besides some other peoples' posts about it), we'll go with your research :) I would definitely love not to have to self cast!

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Chubbypuppy wrote:

Given that I don't have more definitive evidence that triggers do not work (besides some other peoples' posts about it),

I found some of those posts too when I did my research but when I showed those links in my question, people pointed out to me that they were for the old ascendency which did require self casting, which is why triggers did not work with the original MOD.