Does always on-line and trade-centric make PoE better or worse?

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Arrowneous wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

At some point games like Wolcen will have to do something to continue the cash flow or they will stop development and/or online multiplayer. Most of the influx of cash will come at the initial delivery of the game. If the DLCs are free, then their business model will eventually (and likely quickly) fail.

The MTX model doesn't work terrible well with offline games because inevitably people will find a way to get those MTXs without paying for it. Additionally, MTX cosmetics thrive on the vanity of you and others. If it is just solo play, then players are less likely to be vanity driven.

With the GGG F2P business totally dependent on mtx sales then it makes no sense for GGG to have added SSF. There is no "Oh, that cosmetic is cool beans... I want one" in town playing SSF.

SSF is still online and puts players in town seeing MTX of others. You can also visit hideouts right?

You just need the opportunity to see it to want it. Or feel ashamed somehow by your appearance (yes I think this is a thing as well). This model does prey on the vanity we implicitly have. Like it or not.

I get that this pisses off some people but that’s what it is.

Edit: why do you think they make you log in to town and not your hideout? I guarantee that is not an accident nor their inability to code it.

We can't answer "better or worse" because we have no idea if PoE could even have an offline mode. Combat in PoE is much more complex than "click to attack" even if players aren't aware of it. Wolcen isn't. You click on a monster to attack it, and it's resolved and displayed. It's fake. Combat in PoE from the start isn't. That's why it feels different. It is different.

PoE is what it is, and the "trade-centric" view is faulty. The game plays fine without trade. Once you trade though, you're pretty much stuck with it. It's very hard to play a game without a cheat-mode once you've activated it and gotten used to it. Trade is like that. It's not a cheat, but it acts like one. Call it a short cut.

Having an off-line mode is simply keeping people who can't resist from doing it.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Combat in PoE is much more complex than "click to attack" even if players aren't aware of it. Wolcen isn't. You click on a monster to attack it, and it's resolved and displayed. It's fake. Combat in PoE from the start isn't. That's why it feels different. It is different.

Did you play the intro tutorial in Wolcen and come to this conclusion? The combat is actually pretty great - movement skills, a built-in roll dodge (with charges), spells and attacks from all ranges, none of which are strictly target-locked.

Both games, you press button, you attack, damage happens. I'm not sure where the difference is.

PoE is F2P, Wolcen isn't. While I'll concede the possibility, I submit that it's extremely difficult for a company to keep the lights on with an offline mode.

While the style of gameplay is similar, the business model is fundamentally different, making the discussion a bit pointless. It's fine, though. That certainly didn't stop us from creating a million posts on D3 vs PoE.

Carry on.

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Redthorne82 wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Combat in PoE is much more complex than "click to attack" even if players aren't aware of it. Wolcen isn't. You click on a monster to attack it, and it's resolved and displayed. It's fake. Combat in PoE from the start isn't. That's why it feels different. It is different.

Did you play the intro tutorial in Wolcen and come to this conclusion? The combat is actually pretty great - movement skills, a built-in roll dodge (with charges), spells and attacks from all ranges, none of which are strictly target-locked.

Both games, you press button, you attack, damage happens. I'm not sure where the difference is.

Exactly. You make my point. People don't even know the difference. GGG would be really well served to explain it better. You don't notice the difference until you understand it. It's really hard to explain. The attacks in Wolcen are determined by the click... you click and the game takes over and then shows you a graphic of the effect. In PoE you click and the attack IS the effect, and how that interacts with the environment and enemies isn't predetermined. You can miss. It's really too hard to explain here.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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trixxar wrote:

I must respectfully disagree with the idea they care about the largest percentage of players.

Largest percent of paying players... maybe.

That's interesting. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "caring", but essentially you think GGG would prefer to design the game around, lets say 10k players that contribute often?

Personally I don't think you are drawing a correlation correctly from spending habits and retention, to endgame content.

So yeah, 95+% didn't kill Uber Elder, but if they were happy doing whatever else and spending money, I'm not sure that GGG cares that much.

I think that chasing the reward may keep people playing for a while longer than getting there themselves. Different devs think if you let players catch the carrot they stop wanting it.

So instead of a game designed around the majority of players, you let 5% beat content and stream it, and it gets the others to keep playing.

Personally I prefer hard but non-gated games, where Uber Elder or Sirus now is just as hard, but not gated behind RNG mechanics. UE was never THAT hard, if it wasnt for the gates I bet over 50% would have killed him.

But, the gates prevent the 5% from being done in 2 days, so I would say the game is designed a lot more for the no lifers that the average player.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

snip

PoE is what it is, and the "trade-centric" view is faulty.

It isn't faulty because that's what the designers have stated. They've stated multiple times and even written a manifesto that the game is centered and, in point of fact, largely driven through trade. SSF arose to keep those of you who wanted it from flooding the forums even more than you already were. That SSFbtw meme had a start because poe didn't start with it as a game mode.

off line = cheat engine

better
way more better