Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

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ajo wrote:

It's false advertisement.

It's close, especially as he's said himself that stash tabs are "in the grey zone" when it comes to 'pay to win'. I wouldn't go as far as "false advertisement", as I personally don't consider stash tabs "pay to win", but it is kinda misleading.

You can easily play the game and clear all content with your initial stash tabs. You're not paying for a stat boost. You're not paying for 10% increased global damage. That would be "pay to win". You're paying for quality of life changes. You're paying to make the game less tedious.

Honestly we both have 16 achievs this league. I have a bunch of stash tabs. However, 80% of them are empty lol.

You can still trade without premium tabs. You just can't be a hoarder, that's all. I don't really see the problem. I think it's a great way to monetize the game.

I personally think people waste too much time picking up useless loot and would be better off using a stricter loot filter and focusing more on progression rather than looting. I've seen people who spend way way way too much time looting. If they spent that time out clearing maps they'd find more low% drops like exalts. A single low% drop would bring more profit than all the other garbage they wasted their time organizing into their stash.

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DS_Deadman wrote:

Is it "pay to win", yes or no? The answer is no. You can beat the game without buying anything.

I actually think that's phrased poorly. There are plenty of games that I would consider having Pay2Win functionality but which could also be beaten without buying anything. It's not about whether you can beat the game to me, it's about whether there's any micro transactions that increase your power essentially. So for me I feel it isn't Pay2Win simply because the microtransactions are just quality of life improvements. They might potentially speed you up, but only if you're choosing to be a pack rat in the first place. I don't view being a pack rat as integral to the gameplay. If you want to essentially be a merchant, that's an optional route you can go-- and you can trade perfectly fine without premium tabs. So that argument is null as well imo.

I really don't see there being any argument whatsoever that says the game is Pay2Win, and my definition is looser than yours even.

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ajo wrote:

but that doesn't prove that it's not pay-to-win. Most pay-to-win design are in fact time savers and conveniences as seen in the mobile free-to-play industry for example.

I agree that doesn't prove it's not Pay2Win but the stash tabs don't save you time in leveling or beating the game. They only save you time in something that is 100% entirely optional. Trading.

It's simple quality of life improvements for something that is entirely optional. You can trade perfectly fine without the premium tabs.

You do not actually need four stash tabs worth of gear to beat the game, right? Like if all of the gear in your stash tabs were being used on a quasi active basis, I could sort of understand your perspective. You can keep what you *need* in your initial stash space.

We also need to quit calling "beating the game" the standard of "play". Most long time players have never "beaten the game" tabs or no tabs.

This whole argument about tabs being p2w has been going on for over 5 years, and NOTHING has come of it. It's pointless. Quit it.

You will want to buy about $60-$100 worth of tabs. That doesn't mean you'll have a gaming advantage over someone who doesn't. Your character will be just as strong with tabs or without tabs. You want tabs for you... not for your character.

I’ve spent myself way too much on this game, it’s a shame. But PoE is without a doubt, free to play. Everything you buy for it is qol == enjoyment.

Go play another game if you feel like complaining so QQ. How’s Wolcen? Lmao

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ajo wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/game

I never bothered to check the front page of this website but that message about "never pay to win" is intellectual dishonesty.

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yamface wrote:

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ajo wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/game

I never bothered to check the front page of this website but that message about "never pay to win" is intellectual dishonesty.

It isn't and ajo is moving the goal post.

If you want to claim "pay 2 win" then you would first need to define "win".

As far as PoE is concerned, beating the game and reaching level 100 is the objective "win" scenario.(all other win conditions are inventions by the community and meta-win conditions, for example economical prowess etc)

These are all achievable with 4 stash tabs.

The counter-argument that more stash tabs saves you time on this endevour is redundant because it doesn't prevent you from reaching it.
Getting to level 100 after the first person in a league made it doesn't invalidate your "win condition".

Your no longer "beating the game" in such a scenario, but playing pvp and beating another player, which is a meta-win condition and community generated.

All of these points do nothing to the first principles

1) the game is F2P
2) the game is not P2W

They only infringe on the first principles if you do mental gymnastics and take into account community generated win conditions for which GGG take no responsibility.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Baron01 wrote:

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QzumiaTheFeared wrote:

I agree only because of one thing, the base stash tabs you get do not have the ability to become sellable. So even if you try to be efficient with your storage, you are doomed to try sell items manually in trade chat and selling items is the only real way to progress in this game. Unless of course you buy currency with real money via those sites....LOL

Seriously though, even with the above stated, PoE is one of the best games of all time and its free...why not help your gaming situation by spending a few bucks on some stash tabs? Why not help support a company that has given us so much and improve your QoL at the same time?

You realize the option to set stash tab to public and sell items through it was added just recently, right? People were using forum threads to sell items before this for very long time. We also used 3rd party programs to automate this to some extent until GGG finally moved their asses and made some improvements to stash tabs.

Do I believe normal stash tabs should be able to be set to public view? Yes, I do.

I checked before I posted and no, normal tabs do not have the ability to become sellable.

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Azdrubel wrote:

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QzumiaTheFeared wrote:

I agree only because of one thing, the base stash tabs you get do not have the ability to become sellable. So even if you try to be efficient with your storage, you are doomed to try sell items manually in trade chat and selling items is the only real way to progress in this game. Unless of course you buy currency with real money via those sites....LOL

Oh yeah exactly. Which is why noone has killed Awakener in any soloselffound league yet... oh... wait... no. Besides, you can make a forum post to sell your stuff and you can use a tool called Acquisition.

How many times have you checked the forms for items for sale. As someone who has been around since 1.3, my answer is never. How about you?

Also, is your solution noob viable? Nope. Keep it simple man.

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QzumiaTheFeared wrote:

How many times have you checked the forms for items for sale. As someone who has been around since 1.3, my answer is never. How about you?

Also, is your solution noob viable? Nope. Keep it simple man.

You don't need to check the forums yourself. Indexers do that for you. Whenever you use a trade tool, forum posts will be searched as well.
With a tool like Acquisition or Procurement you can even automate creating these forum posts.