Daryl davis vs Joe rogan, must watch?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's a never-ending arms race...

Education is a never-ending race, agreed up to this point, but towards the betterment of oneself with regards to society and humanity as a whole, even if the person in question is the last man on planet Earth. It is (or should be) a daily struggle as to not resort to... arms, but rather stick to arguments, words and ideas.

I don't think it has anything to do with me persuading others of untruths because I believe I'm the champion of truth, but rather me being liberated from the illusion that I alone know the truth. But I'm afraid that that is what I think, and obviously (and may I say regrettably so) I'm in the minority, seeing all this madness with the arms race still going strong all around the globe, so I guess you must be ultimately right, and I wrong, if that was what you wanted all along, there you have it.

You all should check trivium method.

why "VS" they are pretty much agreeing on everything

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Head_Less wrote:

why "VS" they are pretty much agreeing on everything

Fair question... no clue just thought i share and typed rapidly.

It was an interesting chat, but as you point out accurately not much hostility or disagreement between them.

Then again Joe Rogan pretty much moves with the wind depending on who he interviews.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Nizhidrhamannit wrote:

"...lesson taught is ignorance breeds fear, we fear the things we don't understand, if you do not keep that fear in check that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us, if you don't check that hatred it in turn will escalate and breed destruction, we want to destroy those things that we hate because... (you know) they frighten us..." plus "...the source of all this is ignorance, and ignorance can be cured by education..."

"...the klan is history and you don't destroy history, the good, the bad, the ugly and the shameful is still history..."

That pretty much sums it up nicely (for those bored to watch it), very interesting (and kinda funny) conversation, the musician guy said very wise things in very simple words, he definitely knows how to tell a good story, also I had a good laugh, thanks a bunch!

Quite sure u could convince people that they hate/fear religions because they are ignorant of the existence of God etc and they should be religiously educated to prevent that.

My facts:

-All fear ain't based on ignorance.

-You can hate things on personal taste.

-Some things you ignore completely and don't fear, hate or destruct them or whatever because they are irrelevant.

-People imo tend to act with a "fear" or rather caution at things they don't know at first because it can prove useful in a dangerous world.

-Knowing/being educated in something may cause u to hate it even more than if you ignore it. "Curing ignorance" may magnify destruction.

I do agree good and bad are both part of history.

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IIPheXII wrote:

My facts...

Your... facts amigo are exactly that, your facts. As for me I just mentioned briefly, in quotes, what the musician guy said during his conversation with his host, using a plethora of expressions and words, and a good deal of twists and turns. What you make of them is your own business.

That all fear isn't based on ignorance doesn't exclude ignorance breeding fear, or the other way around for that matter.

Hate is quite a strong word to be used lightly, especially when it's only about personal taste. I'd rather use lemon (natural juice) in my salad, others prefer vinegar, I'm ok with vinegar too, I see no real reason to hate poor vinegar, you get the picture.

As for caution, it is as much the same thing as fear, as education is indoctrination, worlds apart actually. This world is a... dangerous place because there's fear lingering in people's hearts, mostly. One could choke oneself to death just by eating one's dinner carelessly and in a hurry, that doesn't mean one has to fear eating, does it? But yes, fear is useful, at times. You can always instill fear in your child to do reckless things, that can cause harm. Or, you could try to reason with the young person, and explain the danger in certain situations, your call.

I don't think that education could cause anyone to hate even more than... before, simply because like I've already said education is something that goes on indefinitely, there is no before and no after education. In a never-ending race (to use the favorite expression of Scrotie) to the betterment of oneself, hate has no place (and no time).

You confuse education with the hoarding of knowledge, hoarding the way a... dragon is hoarding treasures in fantasy fiction, treasures a dragon might never even put to any good use. Education doesn't necessarily come from reading books, studying boring lessons in classrooms, or being lectured by knowledgeable professors, undoubtedly people of good will and intentions. Education could very well mean learning to cast a fishing net, doing martial arts, fencing or... gardening, spending quality time with one's family, getting to know your loved ones feelings, even walking the dog in the park, or taking the time to listen to the sound of... silence! Anything that cultivates one's psyche, and ultimately contributes to the betterment of oneself, anything that makes the fear vanish into thin air and braces one's spirit (without excluding the body).

That's why I've already said that I don't think it has anything to do with me persuading others of untruths because I believe I'm the champion of truth, but rather me being liberated from the illusion that I alone know the truth. But I'm beginning to sound very serious and I... hate that. I kinda feel like that old Russian sergeant in Schindler's List that came all the way to the abandoned by the Germans camp / factory to inform the prisoners of war of the good news.

There goes an old battle hardened sergeant, the exact image of our Dear Father Joseph riding a... donkey. BEING TOTALLY ALONE, he approaches the ex-prisoners who are wondering aimlessly around the abandoned factory, takes a pause, looks at them, and in all seriousness he proclaims: "You have been liberated by the glorious Soviet Army!"

"Ignorance leads to hate" sounds to me like a crude oversimplification of confirmation bias. People are not very likely to respond to evidence that works against their preconceived conclusions by going back to the drawing board; instead, they're more likely to rationalize how that evidence confirms what they already believe, and will undertake breathtaking levels of mental gymnastics to make that happen.

Nobody knows everything, and thus everyone has ignorance — and, precisely because it is empty space yet unfilled, it is ripe for being filled in not by empirical observation but by a theory that protects the rest from criticism. But saying ignorance leads to hatred isn't really accurate; it's more accurate to say that one's hatred hides one's ignorance from oneself, filling it with the illusion of knowledge.

And confirmation bias isn't all evil, either. We don't have enough time in a day to look into every little thing that may turn our ideologies on their heads, and to doubt a key belief by jumping at mere shadows is hopelessly debilitating. We simply can't prove everything and need to fill in the gaps with faith-based pseudo-info of our own creation. The very best we can do is to properly label these as the hypotheses they are as we go on about the business of assuming their validity. To do otherwise is to fall victim to crippling skepticism.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate empirical data. But part of my appreciation is rooted in my understanding that it is scarce. And, as all scarce things inevitably are, rationed.

You are right on the fact that hate is a strong word and that gets used often, can't deny that. I agree quite a lot with the term Scrotie used to define those claims the musician made. Oversimplification.

That is also correct. It does sound like crude oversimplification.

Nobody knows everything, thus everyone has ignorance, indeed. How could it not be so? This is exactly the reason education is a never ending endeavor. If at some point one could somehow get so enlightened and reach the no ignorance state then any further education would simply be redundant, and what a feat of skill, what a remarkable achievement that would be! But even as a concept this sounds as ridiculous as it is.

Also everyone has inherently fears and phobias, that is human nature, that doesn't mean there is no reason to try (at least) to keep them in check. Usually learning things you didn't know, helps considerably in that department. By learning I mean apart from your own empirical data, taking advantage of the... empirical (and theoretical) data of other people, you know recorded in books mostly, and always in good faith.

A good deal of skepticism —I think— is like... salt in a good dish, not to a crippling level of course, mind you. Have no... fear, I don't get you wrong.




Edit: See, even not deliberately, you stated your latent... fear that I might get you wrong simply because I would not be aware of what you truly meant, in other words because of my... ignorance. Or alternatively, you being ignorant of whether or not I fully understood what you truly meant, would cause a latent fear of misunderstanding on my part. Or both.

If there is a fear i don't have is the one of being misunderstood on PoE forums, maybe i'm starting to know these lands...