Why is there no auction house in POE?
" Yes, because they would. Go read Bashiok's statement. I linked it above. Go read the Trade Manifesto (again), Chris Wilson explains it, as bluntly has possible: " Drop rates would be reduced so drastically, that the AH would become the primary vector for gear upgrades. No, I'm not making that up, I'm not being hyperbolic. That is actually what happened in the D3 enviroment. " If you're going to cite it, then yes, go find it. Because you're interpreting the statement as Chris saying "Everyone disagreed with me, but I went ahead anyway." Whereas I suspect a more accurate paraphrase is likely to be "We tried to figure out a way to make it work, but after several days of in-depth study we finally realized we just couldn't". " PoE is not an MMO. None of your MMO examples are relevant. It is a different game style with different game-play loops and different limitations. Auction House systems can indeed serve a useful role in some MMO systems. D3 is the one, single valid example (that I personally am aware of) because it was actually an ARPG. It's exactly the same type of game system that PoE is (despite all D3's many flaws, which I won't belabor here). To list only a few of the relevant differences: MMOs use a shared overworld where players compete for resources. MMOs require large groups to obtain the best gear. Almost all MMO gear is Bind-on-Equip. The BEST MMO gear is Bind-on-Pickup. Many MMOs have a durability system, where equipables are destroyed (sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly). MMOs typically use static stats on gear, there may be some variation, but not to the degree we see in ARPGs, where gear highly randomized. " I'm not. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. You're incredibly quick to frame the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you as negatively as possible, and then you move on to attempting to dismiss said opinions as being invalid as a direct result of your own assumptions. You also appear to assume that the way YOU play PoE is the only valid way, and that the game system should be adjusted specificlly for you, and the tiny percentage of players who play the way you do. " No, that's you, attempting to use a Strawman arguement. I said that your belief that your own suggestions are constructive is highly subjective. In specific, you made a suggestion (in another thread, some weeks ago) and I responded to you specifically with a request for further data regarding your suggestion, and you failed to provide any. Again, I didn't expect you to have the answers, but I had hoped that asking you would promopt you to consider how other styles of game play might be impacted by your suggestion, and to get you to realize how little actual data you personally have on how the game works. " *sighs* Nope, I didn't say that, and I'm not claiming that. That's still you, attempting to employ a Strawman. You're making a blanket generalization about "thousands of suggestions". I have nothing to say about such a generalization. It's a generalization. It's not actionable! If you want to change the existing system, then you need to actually list specific suggestions. " And how much will that cost? No, that's NOT an excuse for you to get defensive and attempt to convince me that it would be "easy". Instead I'm asking literally: How much would that cost? How would that cost corralate to the normal budget for development for a new league. How many people would need to be tasked to build, and execute such a system? Where would that budget come from? Frankly, I suspect you'd have better luck trying to get GGG to impliment such a system in a privately funded league. A "branch" rather than in the main league. But in that case you'd have to shoulder the entire development cost. " Wouldn't work. That's literally what Blizzard/D3 tried, and it still failed. Do I need to mention that Blizzard has 44 employees for every one that GGG has? Point being: Blizzard has a lot more resources to throw at the problem and they still couldn't make it work. " Yes, you have, you just don't believe the argument against it. If you set a price, then people will just go "grind" for that price. Gameplay becomes a search for game currency. Upgrades do not come from gameplay, they come from the AH (because no matter what you believe, drop rates would have to be reduced, drastically). Your suggestion here boils down to (functionally) reducing currency drop rates instead of item drop rates. Either way, you're still implicitly agreeing that in order to make an AH function, drop rates somewhere would have to be reduced. And since you're talking about setting prices you're no longer talking about an Auction House, you're now talking about a store, where merchandise has a set price. An Auction House has a free market, where individual players choose how to price their items. Since you've already implictly agreed that drop rates would have to be nerfed, we need to look at who those nerfs would impact. Not you obviously, because you don't play in a manner that would be impacted. But crafters would be, so too would SSF players (regardless of how much you'd like to pretend that they're not relevant). And finally, PoE's unique currency system is one of the most interesting aspects of the game. The system you're proposing would functionally eliminate that (as Shagsbeard has already pointed out). " Again, because the existing system is the lesser of multiple evils. Are there viable solutions? Perhaps there are. The reason I argue against such suggestions as have been made to date is because I do not believe any of those suggestions are viable. Further, I've yet to hear any suggestion that Chris Wilson has not already addressed and dismissed (at least in general) in his Trade Manifesto. He's quite thorough, and explains his rational in depth. " I oppose changing the existing system, because I have actual experience with an AH system in an ARPG, and (in my opinion) everything that the experts from both GGG and Blizzard tell you about why it failed are 100% accurate. You're once again making a blanket statement which intentionally attempts to frames my opinion on the subject as "irrational" (and thus easily dismissed in your mind), I'll throw a similar blanket statement back at you: I've yet to see anything from you that doesn't boil down to you wanting trade to be "easier". The perils of "easy" trade are one of the key talking points of the Trade Manifesto. Here, I'll link it again for easy reference: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
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" You can search by any prefix or suffix in the game — multiple prefixes and suffixes in fact — in addition to item base, quality, gem level, item level, influence, and/or if it has an asking price and filter further by type of currency. The only thing you can’t do is filter within a stat range (example: you can search for an item with 30 strength, but not for all items with greater than 30 strength). It would seem that you were misinformed. |
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" Literally everything you described would change with an AH is exactly how the game is right now. You don't loot gear anymore, you loot currency and buy your gear. You barely find content access (breachs, emblems, shapers, elders) , so you... trade for them if you want to do that content. This game is not a Gear looter, its a gear Crafter. All the best gear in the game is crafted, because the crafted mods are way superior than anything you will ever find in the wild. So gear progression in this game is based on you crafting your gear, but you can't because you hardly drop the crafting materials (fossils/essences/influenced bases) that your build require, so you trade your unwanted ones for the ones you need, unfortunately you have to do this processs hundreds of times for each gear slot, and since the current trade system suck ass for this types of trade, you simple give up and just farm currency and buy the item already crafted. This means that trying to hinder people gear progression with a shit trade is only actually accelerating the gear progression for most of the playerbase. Last edited by Mortyx on Jan 7, 2020, 11:22:35 PM
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" No actually, I don't trade for any of that stuff. I primarily play SSF. I've traded for something perhaps half a dozen times total in all the years I've played, and I haven't bothered with any trades at all since SSF became an official game mode. All the characters I've built since the introduction of the mode have been SSF, and I never feel the need to migrate any of them back to the trade league. Chris Wilson has the actual trade metrics for the game. You, and everyone you trade with, and everyone who plays the way you do are a small minority of the player base. " Your base assumptions about the nature of the player base are not correct. 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
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" Dude, i am basing my assumptions on what actually happens in the game lol, of course you think that's not how it is because you play only ssf. There is nothing wrong in playing ssf or hardcore or trade, i also vary from time to time, but there is no doubt that the overall game is balanced around softcore trade league. For example i don't play SSF (even thou i am playing mostly ssf even in trade league) because it locks you out of most of the interesting builds in the game. In SSF your progression is a lot more linear than in trade league, but you also reach a wall pretty fast, and once you reach this wall all you can do is pray for the RNGjesus and grind mindlessly for thousand of hours with the possibility of never overcoming that wall, trade league mitigates that. Moral of the story: GGG has to choose if they want a trading arpg or a SSF arpg and commit in their choice. Staying in the middle is just bad for both sides. | |
"6 days? "Now all that's left is for you getting on your knees."
if you know thanks me:) i'm dying to find out x'D | |
" Here is the social interaction: "Ty gl" .. thats all. An Auction House would be so great. No Alt+Tab all the time.. playing in Fullscreen.. no slow trading websites. And .. you can finally play the game and don´t waste time with writing to 30 people cause no one is answering cause they are playing the game Last edited by Kirby1978 on Jan 8, 2020, 1:06:36 PM
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" I love trading and I met many people doing so and have a laughter. I am against an AH because it's soulless. Anyone arguing they can't buy their shits scroll down 2 pages and don't be a cheapskate Last edited by roetetoet on Jan 8, 2020, 1:17:24 PM
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" Alt tab? You using 1 monitor in 2020....... Scroll down 2 pages and your trades to faster for a chaos more,if you don't know by now the first 50 won't reply anyway..... | |
" You seem to have two basic arguments, and one other point 1 - Diablo failed at an AH, so its impossible and can't be explored or attempted here. 2 - Reduced drops rates are bad because... the trade manifesto says it is bad. Presumably it would hurt people who dont trade? and then your other point seems to be 3 - Wanting trade to be less clunky, faster or easy is somehow bad or lazy. People should want to have an unpleasant, slow, clunky trade experience. Or be ok with it. The diablo argument is simply done to death. One single data point proves nothing either way, nor does it explore the many options that could be included (no items on the AH, only consumables). To say one example proves a point forever without further exploration is a simplistic, silly argument. Reduced drop rates - so much junk drops I actually think most people ignore all of it. Even with an AH you would still have to identify 200 items for every one worth selling, perhaps far more. Assume for a moment drop rates remain the same. Average available gear level would increase, but less so than natural power creep or certain league mechanics. Do you remember when incursion started dropping +10% max life with 120 hp chests? That was an explosion of power creep but the game didnt die. Do you remember offhand maces that added 100% of physical damage as elemental? Or DW for casters? And yet the game was adjusted and survived. Using reduced drops rates and/or power creep as an excuse ignores how the game functions currently. Most people I know, and most streamers, largely ignore all rare drops. Good gear is crafted already. It also ignores the fact that a huge portion of people asking for an AH simply want maps and other consumables not to be a nightmare to buy. You have yet to address that. How sending 20 messages for a single consumable adds to gameplay. (The inevitable response - buy in bulk, or pay the highest price not the lowest, simply do not always work and don't address WHY its necessary in the first place.) Lastly, GGG has intentionally made a game mechanic more clunky, less fun, less immersive, more frustrating in an attempt to control player behavior. Players hating this mechanic and blaming GGG is not only normal, but its the natural result of Chris' decision. You can't intentionally try to frustrate, annoy, and piss off players to the point they avoid trade, but make a game balanced around trade (Chris's words, not mine), and then be shocked when players are pissed off at you. Its also just lazy game design, ignoring the vast amount of options to improve trade even outside an AH. Cost? Less than a league mechanic like Synth which was never used again, and which are produced every 3 months, while trade has been and will continue to be a problem for years. Your opinion won't change, and you won't change mine. There is an objective way to settle it, however. Try it out for a league. |
