[3.11] Melting Nova | 16m DPS, 6k life, acro/phase | Deathless Sirus A8

I'm still slightly confused because so many guides seem to talk about this APS and the thresholds differently.

Currently I'm running the frost version of this build and dual wielding Cospris with my APS fully buffed at 7.5, along with wearing 14% CDR boots.

If I move some gear around and change a flask I can push my APS while still dual wielding up to around 9.0 APS while still having 14% CDR boots.

My confusion is because I've seen various people claim that if you are dual wielding (while at 14% CDR), anything under 15 APS is fine and you are not missing procs. But I have heard others claim that if you go over 7.5 APS you are hurting your damage unless you can get much closer to 15 APS, like around 13 minimum or so.

So I guess my question is this, assuming you are dual wielding and have 14% CDR, should you stay under 7.57 APS if you can't get close to 15 APS?



On a separate topic, the guide I was following stays at 7.5 APS and uses Frost Bolt with Frost Bomb in one Cospri, and Ice Nova in the other Cospri (and Ice Nova as the main spell in the CoC chest). Is it better to stick to 1 spell in each Cospri if you are staying at 7.5 APS?

"

Jexx11 wrote:

I'm still slightly confused because so many guides seem to talk about this APS and the thresholds differently.

Currently I'm running the frost version of this build and dual wielding Cospris with my APS fully buffed at 7.5, along with wearing 14% CDR boots.

If I move some gear around and change a flask I can push my APS while still dual wielding up to around 9.0 APS while still having 14% CDR boots.

My confusion is because I've seen various people claim that if you are dual wielding (while at 14% CDR), anything under 15 APS is fine and you are not missing procs. But I have heard others claim that if you go over 7.5 APS you are hurting your damage unless you can get much closer to 15 APS, like around 13 minimum or so.

So I guess my question is this, assuming you are dual wielding and have 14% CDR, should you stay under 7.57 APS if you can't get close to 15 APS?



On a separate topic, the guide I was following stays at 7.5 APS and uses Frost Bolt with Frost Bomb in one Cospri, and Ice Nova in the other Cospri (and Ice Nova as the main spell in the CoC chest). Is it better to stick to 1 spell in each Cospri if you are staying at 7.5 APS?

Looking at this graph I found in a reddit thread: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/ot2hqwf5ke you definetely lose DPS if you're dual wielding and under 14.9-15 APS. I think if you're going 7.5 one hand is better because of the proc rate, please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

"

Jexx11 wrote:

I'm still slightly confused because so many guides seem to talk about this APS and the thresholds differently.

Currently I'm running the frost version of this build and dual wielding Cospris with my APS fully buffed at 7.5, along with wearing 14% CDR boots.

If I move some gear around and change a flask I can push my APS while still dual wielding up to around 9.0 APS while still having 14% CDR boots.

My confusion is because I've seen various people claim that if you are dual wielding (while at 14% CDR), anything under 15 APS is fine and you are not missing procs. But I have heard others claim that if you go over 7.5 APS you are hurting your damage unless you can get much closer to 15 APS, like around 13 minimum or so.

So I guess my question is this, assuming you are dual wielding and have 14% CDR, should you stay under 7.57 APS if you can't get close to 15 APS?



On a separate topic, the guide I was following stays at 7.5 APS and uses Frost Bolt with Frost Bomb in one Cospri, and Ice Nova in the other Cospri (and Ice Nova as the main spell in the CoC chest). Is it better to stick to 1 spell in each Cospri if you are staying at 7.5 APS?

Dual wield 7.5 will be for fine for your 6L, only hurting will be each individual cospri's 3.75 per cospri's. Gotta check if there is enought frostbolts in range to cast your novas twice. Easier to see if you use not default nova/fb skins. If you add second spell to cospri's with this setup it'll be 1.875 frostbolt, not enought frostbolts for sure.

"

empy90 wrote:

Just hit 14.83 attack speed, I don't want to go over 15 right?

Exactly. Any APS value equal or under 15 is ok. Until 15, the more, the better. :)

"

Chesco wrote:

"

empy90 wrote:

Just hit 14.83 attack speed, I don't want to go over 15 right?

Exactly. Any APS value equal or under 15 is ok. Until 15, the more, the better. :)

So even only having 8 or 9 APS while dual wielding is better than staying under 7.57?

"

Jexx11 wrote:

"

Chesco wrote:

"

empy90 wrote:

Just hit 14.83 attack speed, I don't want to go over 15 right?

Exactly. Any APS value equal or under 15 is ok. Until 15, the more, the better. :)

So even only having 8 or 9 APS while dual wielding is better than staying under 7.57?

Yes. Basically we need 7.5 APS per weapon. Single weapon builds should aim for 7.5, dual wield should aim for 15 APS.

This happens because with 14% cooldown recovery speed, every weapon can proc casts once every 132ms, or once every 4 frames. As a second has 30 frames, we can proc up to 30/4=7.5 times per second per weapon.

If you get less than the recommended APS, it's not a problem. You won't be using your procs to its maximum, but it's ok.

If you get more than the recommended APS, you'll attack faster than you can recover your casts. This will result in a (possibly high) DPS loss.

For example, suppose you need 132ms to recover your proc (our default value), but you attack with each weapon every 100ms (10 APS for single weapon, or 20 APS for dual wield), which is higher than our APS cap. What happens is:

1st attack: cast, proc enters CD
2nd attack: proc is on CD (32ms left)
3rd attack: cast, proc enters CD
4th attack: proc is on CD (32ms left)
...
19th attack: cast, proc enters CD
20th attack: proc is on CD (32ms left)

And so on. In short, we could have up to 15 casts per second, but as we went way over our APS cap, we only really have 10 casts per second.

PS: Note that the above amount of casts per second is the same you would achieve if you got 10 APS instead of 20. :)

Also I'd like to leave a quick comment about 7.5 APS and 7.57 APS. I guess I've commented before, but it's worth mentioning again.

We all know how server uses frames of 33ms each to make its calculations. Any cooldown value is rounded up to a multiple of 33ms, that's why we need to reduce our Cospri/COC cooldowns (150ms is rounded up to 165ms, 5 frames, but with 14% CRS we get to 132ms, 4 frames). The question still to be answered is about how server treats a second.

One may say a second is treated as 30 frames (roughly 990ms), as I've used on the above example. That means our maximum casts per second per Cospri/COC is 990/132=7.5.

Now, if we treat a second as a true second, with 1000ms, we would have a maximum casts per second of 1000/132=7.5757...

I didn't do a research about this topic because the DPS increase would be ridiculously low (7.5757 is only about 1% higher than 7.5). Also because I didn't research, I won't recommend people to go to 7.57 for a simple reason.

If I recommend 7.5 and server treats a second as 1000ms, it's ok, we're already almost at the cap. If I recommend 7.57 and server treats a second as 30 frames or 990ms, it's a real problem, because we are right over the cap and our DPS will dramatically decrease.

"

Chesco wrote:

"

Jexx11 wrote:

"

Chesco wrote:

Exactly. Any APS value equal or under 15 is ok. Until 15, the more, the better. :)

So even only having 8 or 9 APS while dual wielding is better than staying under 7.57?

Yes. Basically we need 7.5 APS per weapon. Single weapon builds should aim for 7.5, dual wield should aim for 15 APS.

Don't you forget the 6l CoC Setup regarding his question? Having 8-9 APS is really bad for the single CoC Spell on the 6l.

But you could ofc just fix this with a second spell within the 6l. At least as long as your APS is that bad.

OK thanks for clearing that up for me Chesco. The other guide I was following stated you need to stay under 7.57 unless you could get very close to 15 (basically anything from 14 to 15).

"

Don't you forget the 6l CoC Setup regarding his question? Having 8-9 APS is really bad for the single CoC Spell on the 6l.

But you could ofc just fix this with a second spell within the 6l. At least as long as your APS is that bad.

Ye he has basically 2L in cospri's and only juiced 6L this will be dps loss for sure.