[3.11] Melting Nova | 16m DPS, 6k life, acro/phase | Deathless Sirus A8

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CluedoPE wrote:

Hey, thanks for the guide.
Just can't get what's a benefit of making cold to fire convertion. Isn't freezing with cold should be better?

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Chesco wrote:

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CluedoPE wrote:

Hey, thanks for the guide.
Just can't get what's a benefit of making cold to fire convertion. Isn't freezing with cold should be better?

Pretty good question. Cold version gives us some good chills and freezes, but there are some problems when we compare to the fire version. I'd highlight accuracy, damage, and passive management.

First, If we change Effigon for another amulet (such as Pandemonius), we would then need to invest on accuracy, a problem we don't currently have. We could place Lycosidae, but we would lose the dual Cospri, losing damage. We could also keep Effigon, but we would waste its resistance penetration (maybe it's still a good option, though).

About elemental damage, we currently have all cold damage converted to fire damage, so we benefit from both cold and fire affixes and passives. By changing to cold, we would lose the multiplicative sources (as we would only rely on cold affixes).

Still about damage, we also need to talk about elemental penetration, something often not mentioned but it's something that makes the build shine. We have quite a lot on the fire versios: we can achieve 10+15+10+6+25+19 (boots enchant + Wise Oak + Effigon* + Heart of Flame* + Wave of Conviction* + Combustion*), to a total of 85% fire penetration (* ticked sources contribute to 60% of that value and don't apply for a cold version). That's an awesome value, hard to get on a cold version, and even if we get some, we have some downsides. Common sources are Frost Bomb (25%, people use it on CWDT setup - I don't like the idea to rely on taking damage to increase my damage output), Pandemonius (20% - would remove Effigon, so we need to invest on accuracy) and Heart of Ice (6% - need to invest some points to reach it).

For a cold version, we would also need to change some points on the tree, as almost all fire nodes (except for Snowforged) wouldn't be useful for us anymore. Although we have some "free" points to apply, we don't have many close nodes worth investing, and most of them need some +10 attribute nodes on the way. Most of the removed fire nodes are near the main path (Avatar of Fire, Heart of Flame, Fire Walker), requiring no additional investment, so we're trading some damage nodes for attribute nodes. Not a good deal.

Besides all I've written, I must say cold version is also viable (this is a good example). I just think they're not as good as fire version. It has higher damage (quite unachievable for cold builds), good clear speed and decent survivability (EHP comparison is questionable because we have high values of evasion and dodge).

I also must say the fire version can run with almost no mandatory items (Effigon + Tabula + 2x Cospri with the right gem setups can bring you to endgame) and it has a well-rounded overall status with low cost (specially it doesn't require the expensive cooldown recovery speed on boots). High Cyclone critical strike chance, 15 APS and high values of penetration are easy to achieve with little investment.

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Chesco wrote:

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Sagex01 wrote:

Hey! HUGE thanks for the guide. This turned out to be my favorite build that I ever played!

One question, if you can please check my character... I only have around 10.5 APS and I don't know how to get it closer to 15aps... I know I need to lvl my gems but I'm not sure how I am missing .45 aps and feels like I am missing a mechanic or something... The guide says to tune down the APS not up :D

It's probably something I'm not aware of in the pob setup or something. If you could help it would be greatly appreciated!


Thanks again for the build, so happy I found it! :D

Gear

Spoiler

Thanks for the comment! <3

I've talked to you ingame a while ago, but will still comment here so other people can check.

The APS problem maybe happens because you didn't turn on frenzy charges (gained from Poacher's Mark ring) and Onslaught (to simulate the 20% attack speed bonus from Mistwalker). This way you are around 13 APS.

Some possible changes to increase your attack speed are Cyclone enchant on helm (15% - way too expensive at the moment), Watcher's Eye with attack speed with Precision (10-15%), or boots enchant for 15% attack speed if killed recently, or investing on some jewels with attack speed affixes. 15% attack speed will give you a little lower than 1 APS, so with around 30% increased attack speed on items you'll get really close to the cap! :)

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dragnmith1 wrote:

so i just tryed to figure my pob damage n came up with 10,475,450.25 dps Shaper damage this true? tryed your pob link but for some reason it wont load ssl error then a 302 error, lol dont know what the f is wrong with it n yes it's updated lol.Thx again for the guide n build

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Chesco wrote:

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CluedoPE wrote:

Hey, thanks for the guide.
Just can't get what's a benefit of making cold to fire convertion. Isn't freezing with cold should be better?

Pretty good question. Cold version gives us some good chills and freezes, but there are some problems when we compare to the fire version. I'd highlight accuracy, damage, and passive management.

First, If we change Effigon for another amulet (such as Pandemonius), we would then need to invest on accuracy, a problem we don't currently have. We could place Lycosidae, but we would lose the dual Cospri, losing damage. We could also keep Effigon, but we would waste its resistance penetration (maybe it's still a good option, though).

About elemental damage, we currently have all cold damage converted to fire damage, so we benefit from both cold and fire affixes and passives. By changing to cold, we would lose the multiplicative sources (as we would only rely on cold affixes).

Still about damage, we also need to talk about elemental penetration, something often not mentioned but it's something that makes the build shine. We have quite a lot on the fire versios: we can achieve 10+15+10+6+25+19 (boots enchant + Wise Oak + Effigon* + Heart of Flame* + Wave of Conviction* + Combustion*), to a total of 85% fire penetration (* ticked sources contribute to 60% of that value and don't apply for a cold version). That's an awesome value, hard to get on a cold version, and even if we get some, we have some downsides. Common sources are Frost Bomb (25%, people use it on CWDT setup - I don't like the idea to rely on taking damage to increase my damage output), Pandemonius (20% - would remove Effigon, so we need to invest on accuracy) and Heart of Ice (6% - need to invest some points to reach it).

For a cold version, we would also need to change some points on the tree, as almost all fire nodes (except for Snowforged) wouldn't be useful for us anymore. Although we have some "free" points to apply, we don't have many close nodes worth investing, and most of them need some +10 attribute nodes on the way. Most of the removed fire nodes are near the main path (Avatar of Fire, Heart of Flame, Fire Walker), requiring no additional investment, so we're trading some damage nodes for attribute nodes. Not a good deal.

Besides all I've written, I must say cold version is also viable (this is a good example). I just think they're not as good as fire version. It has higher damage (quite unachievable for cold builds), good clear speed and decent survivability (EHP comparison is questionable because we have high values of evasion and dodge).

I also must say the fire version can run with almost no mandatory items (Effigon + Tabula + 2x Cospri with the right gem setups can bring you to endgame) and it has a well-rounded overall status with low cost (specially it doesn't require the expensive cooldown recovery speed on boots). High Cyclone critical strike chance, 15 APS and high values of penetration are easy to achieve with little investment.

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Milanfan wrote:

The cold version can have a lot of penetration as well there is a build that uses frost bomb and frostbite in one of the weapons and they are not in CWDT setup. These 2 contribute to 67% penetration + 20% from pandemonius= 87%. And for accuracy the build uses Tempered mind jewel,high lvl precision and ice golem.

Using curses in 1 of the weapons may lead to big dps loss though i am fairly new to the game and hate calculatin in POB. Frostbolt and ice nova are in the other Cospri and vaal ice nova-cyclone-inspiration-critical strikes-concentrated effect-COC is the armor setup. I killed Shaper easily with this but have not tried Uber Elder.

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Dual-wielding Malices is another case that needs to be treated carefully. Cyclone alternates between your weapons when you dual-wield. This means if you attack at 15.14ApS while dual-wielding, each Malice will hit 7.57 times per second, which is the maximum for a single skill. You can support full-speed casts of two different skills by dual-wielding Malices and attacking at that doubled speed. The prime example of this is placing Frostbolt in one Malice and Ice Nova in the other. The Malices alternate and cast both of those 7.57 times per second.

Put those both together, and you can put Frostbolt in one Malice, Ice Nova in the other Malice, and put Frostbolt and Ice Nova in your CoC setup, and trigger all four of those spells at the maximum possible rate if you attack quickly!

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Chesco wrote:

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Milanfan wrote:

The cold version can have a lot of penetration as well there is a build that uses frost bomb and frostbite in one of the weapons and they are not in CWDT setup. These 2 contribute to 67% penetration + 20% from pandemonius= 87%. And for accuracy the build uses Tempered mind jewel,high lvl precision and ice golem.

Using curses in 1 of the weapons may lead to big dps loss though i am fairly new to the game and hate calculatin in POB. Frostbolt and ice nova are in the other Cospri and vaal ice nova-cyclone-inspiration-critical strikes-concentrated effect-COC is the armor setup. I killed Shaper easily with this but have not tried Uber Elder.

I got it. :)

This "exchange" on cold builds is the bad part for me. I've started with a cold version, and leaving them behind was one of the best things on this build. Spending mana reservation and a jewel socket for accuracy is a pretty high cost. Having a Cospri with Frostbolt - Frost Bomb - Frostbite is a good setup for penetration, but it also reduces Frostbolt damage by a lot without its supports (it's the highest average damage on POB for fire version - of course, if you don't consider Ice Nova deals twice the damage shown).

The cool part about fire version is that we already have most of those without any need for exchange. 100% accuracy with little effort, high penetration with just some useful skills and items (no damage exchange needed). There's even the possibility to place a Flammability curse on the 6-link without losing damage (by replacing Fortify, for example). Again, there's a bunch of possibilities we can think about without a real cost for the build.