[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Graiaule wrote:

Regarding Flesh and Stone: in my Standard char, I replaced it with Arctic Armour, which seemed better than nothing.

I would rather try to keep F&S. It's an awesome buff. Especially since The Stampede will now be the only way to go. Don't underestimate the power of evasion. Between it and F&S you are evading a whole lot of hits.

AA is only good for facetanking a stationary target. But we rarely do that anymore.

One interesting change in 3.15 is that Arcane Surge becomes a good support for Icestorm itself rather than getting triggered by Vortex or Frostblink. It will now be easy to trigger even the max level Arcane Surge (spend 400 mana in 4 sec), and it grants the top tier damage buff similar to CE plus a lot of mana regen. Can use it in the staff instead of EF (which becomes a lesser damage buff) - with an added bonus of Icestorm freezing trash mobs on hit! And free up a gem socket.

See, not everything is a nerf in 3.15!

It appears to me-from the updated support gems-that CwC will be 1*40*, not 1*00*. That probably throws math off.

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omniarcan wrote:

It appears to me-from the updated support gems-that CwC will be 1*40*, not 1*00*. That probably throws math off.

Where are you seeing that? That's not in the support gem update https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3147753 .

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Graiaule wrote:

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omniarcan wrote:

It appears to me-from the updated support gems-that CwC will be 1*40*, not 1*00*. That probably throws math off.

Where are you seeing that? That's not in the support gem update https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3147753 .

Apparently, it always had 140% mod, it just didn't matter to us. So the mana cost will be in the 70's instead of the 50's. But that's just technical details. Once PoB is updated, we can check how much mana regen or -cost we'll need to sustain Icestorm.

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Graiaule wrote:

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omniarcan wrote:

It appears to me-from the updated support gems-that CwC will be 1*40*, not 1*00*. That probably throws math off.

Where are you seeing that? That's not in the support gem update https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3147753 .

My mistake-I was comparing the 140 cost that already existed for the spell you're using to cast it on the gem in the page to what's on the wiki, 'cause for some reason the wiki didn't have a cost listed.

Here's a very fitting way to mitigate the mana cost of Icestorm:

That's a prefix mod on a Shaper ring, i.e. you can have that without sacrificing Int or resists.

Against a single target, you gain 15 mana per second per Icestorm. Or 75 mana per second once you have stacked all 5 storms on it. Or 150 mana per second if you have 2 such rings.

Combined with the regen from other sources, that should already be enough to sustain Icestorm on a boss without any extra investment. And for clearing trash your mana will just always be full, as long as you don't cast on empty spaces for too long.

At the early levels, before you have rings like that, you can use Praxis or Elreon rings. Or, more likely, you won't even have a 6S staff yet so Icestorm will not cost as much mana.

Also: Clarity. You are not going to have Aspect of the Spider for quite a while, so there will be free mana for Clarity.

I don't think the mana cost of Icestorm is going to be the biggest issue in 3.15. I'm more concerned about the CWDT links draining mana. And, of course, the game-wide power nerf.

Now, another change: Vortex-Bonechill isn't as good as it was before. All it does now is make the enemy standing in it take 10% increased cold damage. Which is OK, I guess. It's still another damage modifier. If it was the only source of enemy taking increased damage, it would be equivalent to 10% MORE damage for this build. But it's not the only source of it, so it adds less than 10% overall.

For now, I'm going to drop that link and have 2 gem sockets for something else. Vortex was also used to trigger Arcane Surge, but, as I mentioned above, Arcane Surge will be moving to the staff now.

That's 3 free sockets right there. For example, we can have Discipline - F&S - Clarity - Enlighten instead of the old Vortex link.

After looking at both versions in PoB and my respective characters and gear from 3.12 (Asc) and 3.13 (Occ), I have decided to go with the Ascendant for 3.15.

In theory, Occultist with ultimate gear should still be more powerful than Ascendant with ultimate gear. But that gear has to be really, REALLY good. In 3.13 I fine-tuned my stats and resists with Harvest crafting to get close to perfection on the Occultist, which allowed me to use Synthesized items and still balance all resists. It took quite a number of Harvest resist type changes and targeted rerolls even in that league, before the big nerf. Plus stun avoidance. Now that kind of gear is much harder to make AND it has to be even more perfect with mana-related things in mind.

Ascendant is a lot easier to gear. Maybe not to such perfection as Occultist, but to be comfortable enough. Ascendant doesn't need an extra Blasphemy aura, so it will have a lot more free mana. It's immune to stun. It needs fewer gem sockets, i.e. it can afford extra gems such as Clarity, Frost Shield, Vigilant Strike.

Finally, I don't see an easy way to level Occultist in 3.15 without either running into major mana problems or sacrificing important build features until I can obtain things that are just not available early in a new league.

Rather than chasing perfection with Occultist, I'm going to take an easier route with Ascendant and see how the build works in 3.15.

Glad to know this survived. Time for another league with WI!