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ScrotieMcB wrote:
What do you call the doctrine of having dubious laws rules on the books in the Code of Conduct, but instead of repealing removing them, just lawlessly refuse to prosecute enforce them? I'd say "neoliberalism" except that moniker is already taken. Clearly such a heavy reliance on prosecutorial moderator discretion would never be used in a partisan biased manner to punish the bad behavior of some while permitting it from others.
Also, discussing the choices GGG overnment makes isn't political because corporations obviously never use the credible threat of punitive action to manipulate behavior of aliens guests on their jurisdiction property. Office politics? Lel, what an oxymoron. Do you even capitalism bro? BTW water cooler gossip is now banned.
Tbh it doesnt even matter anymore.
Being sensitive about topics that make you uncomfortable is the basis for healthy debate and discussion. How else would anyone learn where others are coming from, or see alternative thought?
Not liking Trump, or being pro-choice, or whatever the fuck else is now inflammatory, at least provided an outlet for people to present ideas and commentary. Did it get bumpy at times? Sure, but never outrageous, and the alternative should never be to silence it all. I mean this is a FORUM.
Again I find it tremendously ironic that one of the cases presented to shift in the CoC, was to encourage healthy participation, when in reality in just caused everyone to abandon the section. I hope support feels good that the best option for people was to just go away because nothing here is worth paying any attention to.
What a rousing success. 80% participation drop. True Heroes of society.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44#6905on Jun 18, 2019, 12:20:10 PMOn Probation
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DarthSki44 wrote:
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
What do you call the doctrine of having dubious laws rules on the books in the Code of Conduct, but instead of repealing removing them, just lawlessly refuse to prosecute enforce them? I'd say "neoliberalism" except that moniker is already taken. Clearly such a heavy reliance on prosecutorial moderator discretion would never be used in a partisan biased manner to punish the bad behavior of some while permitting it from others.
Also, discussing the choices GGG overnment makes isn't political because corporations obviously never use the credible threat of punitive action to manipulate behavior of aliens guests on their jurisdiction property. Office politics? Lel, what an oxymoron. Do you even capitalism bro? BTW water cooler gossip is now banned.
Tbh it doesnt even matter anymore.
Being sensitive about topics that make you uncomfortable is the basis for healthy debate and discussion. How else would anyone learn where others are coming from, or see alternative thought?
Not liking Trump, or being pro-choice, or whatever the fuck else is now inflammatory, at least provided an outlet for people to present ideas and commentary. Did it get bumpy at times? Sure, but never outrageous, and the alternative should never be to silence it all. I mean this is a FORUM.
Again I find it tremendously ironic that one of the cases presented to shift in the CoC, was to encourage healthy participation, when in reality in just caused everyone to abandon the section. I hope support feels good that the best option for people was to just go away because nothing here is worth paying any attention to.
What a rousing success. 80% participation drop. True Heroes of society.
Off Topic has long been the "bad neighborhood" of PoE's fora. Like many bad neighborhoods, it hasn't really been all that "bad;" plenty of perfectly civil and inoffensive folks have staked their claims to threads on it. Of course, then there are the "interesting" threads, the ones which got the most traffic, and which precipitated the Support crackdown.
Those threads were the bad streets and back alleys of Off Topic; those who ventured there usually knew what to expect, and had no business crying about being "offended" by what they saw there. I'm not sure if some forum members did become offended enough to report posts to Support, or if Support members, themselves, became offended, but those threads were shut down in spite of an unspoken agreement among (most?) all participants that we knew the score, and dealt with those posts in our own ways. Demonstrably, any offense any of us took was insufficient to dampen our enthusiasm for the debates.
I once Moderated a sci-fi forum with a "No-Holds Barred" sub-forum, a place where the only rules were those which related to illegal matter. Otherwise, it was "Enter at your own risk," and it was a wonderful draw for all the sorts of things which might otherwise disrupt the serenity of the forum in general. Occasionally, a little brouhaha might spontaneously flare up outside of it, but often as not, it was other forum members who directed the offenders to NHB as it was a Mod, and off they would go to have their scrum.
NHB made for a great place to vent one's spleen, and it wasn't just forum badenoughs who used it. It also made explicit moderation of the main sub-fora much easier, as any "non-specifically inflammatory" topics could be directed there without need of discussion. =^[.]^=
=^[.]^= basic (happy/amused) cheetahmoticon: Whiskers/eye/tear-streak/nose/tear-streak/eye/
whiskers =@[.]@= boggled / =>[.]<= annoyed or angry / ='[.]'= concerned / =0[.]o= confuzzled /
=-[.]-= sad or sleepy / =*[.]*= dazzled / =^[.]~= wink / =~[.]^= naughty wink / =9[.]9= rolleyes #FourYearLie Last edited by Raycheetah#7060 on Jun 18, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
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Posted byRaycheetah#7060on Jun 18, 2019, 12:55:47 PMAlpha Member
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Raycheetah wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
What do you call the doctrine of having dubious laws rules on the books in the Code of Conduct, but instead of repealing removing them, just lawlessly refuse to prosecute enforce them? I'd say "neoliberalism" except that moniker is already taken. Clearly such a heavy reliance on prosecutorial moderator discretion would never be used in a partisan biased manner to punish the bad behavior of some while permitting it from others.
Also, discussing the choices GGG overnment makes isn't political because corporations obviously never use the credible threat of punitive action to manipulate behavior of aliens guests on their jurisdiction property. Office politics? Lel, what an oxymoron. Do you even capitalism bro? BTW water cooler gossip is now banned.
Tbh it doesnt even matter anymore.
Being sensitive about topics that make you uncomfortable is the basis for healthy debate and discussion. How else would anyone learn where others are coming from, or see alternative thought?
Not liking Trump, or being pro-choice, or whatever the fuck else is now inflammatory, at least provided an outlet for people to present ideas and commentary. Did it get bumpy at times? Sure, but never outrageous, and the alternative should never be to silence it all. I mean this is a FORUM.
Again I find it tremendously ironic that one of the cases presented to shift in the CoC, was to encourage healthy participation, when in reality in just caused everyone to abandon the section. I hope support feels good that the best option for people was to just go away because nothing here is worth paying any attention to.
What a rousing success. 80% participation drop. True Heroes of society.
Off Topic has long been the "bad neighborhood" of PoE's fora. Like many bad neighborhoods, it hasn't really been all that "bad;" plenty of perfectly civil and inoffensive folks have staked their claims to threads on it. Of course, then there are the "interesting" threads, the ones which got the most traffic, and which precipitated the Support crackdown.
Those threads were the bad streets and back alleys of Off Topic; those who ventured there usually knew what to expect, and had no business crying about being "offended" by what they saw there. I'm not sure if some forum members did become offended enough to report posts to Support, or if Support members, themselves, became offended, but those threads were shut down in spite of an unspoken agreement among (most?) all participants that we knew the score, and dealt with those posts in our own ways. Demonstrably, any offense any of us took was insufficient to dampen our enthusiasm for the debates.
I once Moderated a sci-fi forum with a "No-Holds Barred" sub-forum, a place where the only rules were those which related to illegal matter. Otherwise, it was "Enter at your own risk," and it was a wonderful draw for all the sorts of things which might otherwise disrupt the serenity of the forum in general. Occasionally, a little brouhaha might spontaneously flare up outside of it, but often as not, it was other forum members who directed the offenders to NHB as it was a Mod, and off they would go to have their scrum.
NHB made for a great place to vent one's spleen, and it wasn't just forum badenoughs who used it. It also made explicit moderation of the main sub-fora much easier, as any "non-specifically inflammatory" topics could be directed there without need of discussion. =^[.]^=
I think it was abundantly clear that some moderators had issues with certain topics and some didnt. I'm sure it created some tension in the ranks, and while understandable, the solution wasnt really appropriate for an off-topic section.
We would have threads that went on for many pages without incident or moderation, only to be shut down completely by another moderator(presumably) who had a personal issue with the topic itself. Since there were no CoC violations to refer to, this became problematic.
I can imagine that internal support discussions around this became quite dramatic with some staff having significant problems with content, while others probably didnt mind much. Its unfortunate that the final outcome was a sledgehammer to the section, but again its irrelevant now. Its dead.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44#6905on Jun 18, 2019, 1:29:29 PMOn Probation
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This is seriously trash, like wtf....
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/988f3369-4b68-4eb9-bc0e-edfce4c3c950
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Posted byMoridin79#6328on Jun 18, 2019, 2:11:28 PM
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DarthSki44 wrote:
Again I find it tremendously ironic that one of the cases presented to shift in the CoC, was to encourage healthy participation, when in reality in just caused everyone to abandon the section. I hope support feels good that the best option for people was to just go away because nothing here is worth paying any attention to.
What a rousing success. 80% participation drop. True Heroes of society.
Considering the OT forum offers no meaningful contribution to GGG's bottom line, I doubt they'd give it a second thought actually.
Last edited by _bk#7943 on Jun 18, 2019, 4:37:21 PM
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Posted by_bk#7943on Jun 18, 2019, 4:28:48 PM
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Bk老虎 wrote:
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DarthSki44 wrote:
Again I find it tremendously ironic that one of the cases presented to shift in the CoC, was to encourage healthy participation, when in reality in just caused everyone to abandon the section. I hope support feels good that the best option for people was to just go away because nothing here is worth paying any attention to.
What a rousing success. 80% participation drop. True Heroes of society.
Considering the OT forum offers no meaningful contribution to GGG's bottom line, I doubt they'd give it a second thought actually.
Please do point me in the direction of the profitable forum section(s).
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44#6905on Jun 18, 2019, 4:36:50 PMOn Probation
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Bug Reports would be a good place to start. GD sometimes contains useful feedback. The real feedback forum less often, but occasionally.
Then there's all the class forums with build guides that help keep a number of people interested in the game.
All these forums help with improving the game, either directly or indirectly. OT is just a relic of times gone by when forums were more popular for general communication as well; nowadays it's a black hole.
Last edited by _bk#7943 on Jun 18, 2019, 4:47:11 PM
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Posted by_bk#7943on Jun 18, 2019, 4:42:17 PM
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Nah GD and OT offer about the same amount of information, none of it really contributes to anything.
The bug section has minor use, mostly to identify larger scaled issues, that then get deleted. Most of the bugs get reported directly to support, without the fanfare of an actual thread being created.
Tbh, all these forums have a cost associated with them, not a source of profits at all.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44#6905on Jun 18, 2019, 4:59:34 PMOn Probation
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Bk老虎 wrote:
Considering the OT forum offers no meaningful contribution to GGG's bottom line, I doubt they'd give it a second thought actually.
Building a community is hard, and keeping people interested in your game beyond a purely transactional relationship is a non-obvious problem. Think of all the times that the devs have chatted with people about non-game stuff, or all the guilds/clans/playgroups that have formed from the forums, or the charity drives that have been started.
Forums traditionally allow for people to group up and chat generally while being surrounded by advertising for the game, and all the fancy forum titles, challenge completions, badges, and avatars that they include in their supporter packs are part of it, too.
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Bk老虎 wrote:
OT is just a relic of times gone by when forums were more popular for general communication as well
Is it a good thing that "a place to hang out and chat" is becoming a relic?
Some businesses are better being purely transactional (think, corner store), some are better at being a place to hang out and coincidentally purchase things (think, coffee shop). Which kind of business is GGG?
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Posted bypneuma#0134on Jun 18, 2019, 5:01:34 PMAlpha Member
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pneuma wrote:
Is it a good thing that "a place to hang out and chat" is becoming a relic?
Some businesses are better being purely transactional (think, corner store), some are better at being a place to hang out and coincidentally purchase things (think, coffee shop). Which kind of business is GGG?
In an ideal world, no. But if roughly 80% of the activity has become the kind of thing that'd be banned elsewhere, it's time for it to move on. After all, GGG is a game developer, not a political forum. There's no particular reason for a game developer to hire staff with special talent in moderating debates over politics.
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Posted by_bk#7943on Jun 18, 2019, 7:19:02 PM
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