Minecraft creator and fellow Exile Notch banned from 10 year anniversary celebration for wrongthink

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faerwin wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Why is it notable?

Because we are never going to get rid of bigotry.

As long as they don't escalate into violence or assaults they are a non-issue in human life.

Extremely wrong. Words can destroy someone like nothing else can.

No they cannot, people can allow words to destroy themselves like nothing else can.

See the difference.

Peace,

-Boem-

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rojimboo wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Boem wrote:

As for the other part, you started this with the homophobia and transphobia comment, not me. I'm just interested how people can have prejudice towards people based on sexual orientation when it's not visible on the outside.

Nobody said anything about it not being visible. I just noted that the topic touched on homophobia, transphobia etc, and you responded by saying that where I live people must be able to smell sexual orientation. It made no sense whatsoever.

Is it just me or was the 'Smell of Homosexuals' one of the more bizarre moments in Path of Exile Off-Topic discussions?

;)

Sight, smell, sound etc etc

I still haven't gotten an answer how you identify a gay/trans person just by his outwards appearance.

Unless of course he is signaling it intentionally, in which case "fair game" comes into it.

Just like a women wearing make-up and a miniskirt might get the prejudice thrown towards her that she is promiscuous.
Or a muscled man with tatoo's on his arm might get prejudice thrown towards him about his intellectual capacity.

etc etc

People are going to judge with as many or as little atributes as they can perceive.

It's up to you to decide wether you care about that judgement and if it's in your interest to change it.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Why is it notable?

Because we are never going to get rid of bigotry.

As long as they don't escalate into violence or assaults they are a non-issue in human life.

Extremely wrong. Words can destroy someone like nothing else can.

No they cannot, people can allow words to destroy themselves like nothing else can.

See the difference.

Peace,

-Boem-

You are so wrong it's not even funny.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Right, and we're never going to get rid of burglary, but importantly, we still have laws against it and police to enforce them.

It doesn't matter that perfection is unattainable. That's of literally zero importance. What matters is that we can improve upon the current state of things. We can make people's lives a bit better. If we choose to actually care.

Bigotry does escalate into violence and assaults. It also contributes to mental health issues and suicide. It leads to employment discrimination, electoral discrimination; to failures of health, education and justice systems and so on.

It's nice that bigotry is a non-issue for you, but you aren't the spokesperson for human life.

We already have laws in place against assault and against discrimination.

As for the other factors i haven't seen any proof of that or how one kind of prejudice is at a higher objective danger then others.

I've seen people blow up numbers of hate crimes and of actual dysmorphic population ratio's to extremes etc but nothing of actual objective relevance so far.
Just like scrotie hinted, anybody will get discriminated when he moves in between social groups from one to the other depending on shared traits.

And there is very little wrong with that, because most people once you start talking easily go "oh wait, prejudice wasn't spot on" and that's the age we live in.

If they don't, get new friends or change your suroundings don't expect the world to change on your behalf that's only going to rile opposition to your worldview.

Dialogue usually cuts prejudice like a knife true butter if both party's act in good-faith.

Peace,

-Boem-

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faerwin wrote:

You are so wrong it's not even funny.

I'm going to need a bit more then that if you actually wanna make a point.

For example my argument is that antifragility is a thing and victim ideology damages humans psychologically and long therm because it renders them incapable of the tools to combat ideological disputes and differences.

And i don't really have to back up antifragility since it's the best working tool to combat mental health trauma's to date.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : look faerwin, i will give you a real life example of how antifragil people look like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRm4nTIp7I4

I'm not into that kind of human who will behave in bad-faith against anybody that doesn't align with their view or party-line.

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rojimboo wrote:

Quotas are not necessarily an equality of outcome device, they are also in the substantive model of equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome is not substantive evidence of equality of opportunity. Indeed, equality of outcome is substantive evidence that characteristics of merit have been overlooked in favor of identity-group characteristics, because the odds of groups having equal performance everywhere are infinitesimal.

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rojimboo wrote:

What I meant was (and I thought it pretty clear) that you need to have some device to counteract the rampant inequality (income/wealth) in your country or wherever. Underpriviledged kids from poor backgrounds would be the suitable candidates here, not only for scholarships and the likes (cause of insane tuition fees) but also for getting a foot in the door with a quota. It's terribly hard to compete when the game was rigged already, you were born into poverty and went to terribad schools to try and get into university.

You are greatly overstating the extent to which the game is rigged. This is because the belief in bigotry applied in a negative direction is used by bigots to justify their own "positive direction" bigotry to themselves.

North America and Europe offer the greatest equality of opportunity in regards to race that the world has ever seen. It's not perfect, but it's reasonably close to it. We all live in a world where pro-white racism is met with social and financial ostracization, if not Antifa violence and criminalization. White supremacists are almost totally devoid of political power.

Have you seen Inception? Because it's as if, about 50-70 years ago, Western culture put this idea into its head, an idea of doubt and guilt: the idea that maybe whiteness isn't all that great. And in the wake of World War 2 going into the US Civil Rights movement, that idea made sense and allowed us to see a truer world. But even after great strides forward, the idea wouldn't die. Even long past the point of utility, people act as if this idea is true. It's become poisonous. Potentially even fatal. It's as if somewhere in the collective mind of Western Civilization there is a dream, and in the dream is a house, and in the house is a safe, and in the safe is a swastika. No, that's not who you are anymore.

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rojimboo wrote:

You guys are still under the illusion income and 'class' mobility exists in the US and it's the land of dreams and the hopeful.

No, you are under the illusion that because we vehemently disagree with your proposed "solution" that we are unaware of the problem.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Have you seen Inception? Because it's as if, about 50-70 years ago, Western culture put this idea into its head, an idea of doubt and guilt: the idea that maybe whiteness isn't all that great.

It's surely no greater or worse than any other race, right?

What you still don't get is that inequality exists in massive proportions in your country. Christ, you have *ghettos*!!

Even you don't dispute this, you acknowledge it, yet in the same breath want nothing to do with quotas and offer no alternative to the problem.

I've many times now stated I would rather there be no quotas based on income or race or some other underpriviledged criteria. Why? Because it is by definition unfair and breeds inequality. What you fail to see is that it's still preferable than the status quo of having massive inequality in society. At least it tries to address the problem, which only seemingly exists in a handful of developed countries to my knowledge.

I think of Canada and Murica when I hear affirmative action. Anywhere else? Not sure.

In these two cases, something messed up the equality of opportunity for certain groups of people. With time, it just got worse. So the government stepped in, rightfully so, to give some people a fighting chance.

You shouldn't think you end up where you were born at, a peasant will always remain a peasant for instance. No, there needs to be a way to break through upwards in class or hierarchy in society, seeing as you will never address the actual cause of the problem, income inequality.

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rojimboo wrote:

In these two cases, something messed up the equality of opportunity for certain groups of people. With time, it just got worse. So the government stepped in, rightfully so, to give some people a fighting chance.

Go watch some Thomas sowell.

Peace,

-Boem-

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rojimboo wrote:

Christ, you have *ghettos*!!

Even you don't dispute this, you acknowledge it, yet in the same breath want nothing to do with quotas and offer no alternative to the problem.

I don't need to offer an alternative to ethnocommunism. It's worse than ghettoization. Shitty s it would be, doing nothing is a superior alternative.

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rojimboo wrote:

You shouldn't think you end up where you were born at, a peasant will always remain a peasant for instance. No, there needs to be a way to break through upwards in class or hierarchy in society, seeing as you will never address the actual cause of the problem, income inequality.

First, things are getting worse as far as class mobility goes, but let's not pretend they're utterly hopeless. Rags to riches stories still happen sometimes.

Second, racism isn't the solution to income inequality. Some white people are in poverty. Some black people are fantastically rich. You're trying to use a bigoted means to separate rich from poor.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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rojimboo wrote:

Christ, you have *ghettos*!!

Even you don't dispute this, you acknowledge it, yet in the same breath want nothing to do with quotas and offer no alternative to the problem.

I don't need to offer an alternative to ethnocommunism. It's worse than ghettoization. Shitty s it would be, doing nothing is a superior alternative.

You only say that because you haven't lived in a ghetto.

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rojimboo wrote:

You shouldn't think you end up where you were born at, a peasant will always remain a peasant for instance. No, there needs to be a way to break through upwards in class or hierarchy in society, seeing as you will never address the actual cause of the problem, income inequality.

First, things are getting worse as far as class mobility goes, but let's not pretend they're utterly hopeless. Rags to riches stories still happen sometimes.

Look poor people, it's not SO BAD! You can always win the lottery after all!
*facepalm*

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Second, racism isn't the solution to income inequality. Some white people are in poverty. Some black people are fantastically rich. You're trying to use a bigoted means to separate rich from poor.

I don't really agree affirmative action is racist. It's an equaliser. It equalises inequalities that are present for one reason or another, due to how badly you messed up your society. Furthermore, it is a remedy for the symptom, not the cause. THe cause being massive inequality (income/wealth).

To treat the cause you could look into the Nordic socialist model for instance, or just implement progressive taxation or some other 'equalisers', if you actually cared about such things.