Favour gain needs to be tweaked to make the hideout system viable and accessible

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klokwerkaos wrote:

I don't see this as a problem, your hideout stuff carries over between leagues.

having a hideout worth 15M is an aspirational goal, meaning, it's not something the general casual player will have.

Frankly I've got several baller hideouts and they are deco'd and eyebleeding with particle effects with about as much crap as I can fit in them without clipping and stacking stuff upon stuff upon stuff, and I'm a new player as of halfway through 3.5, and I can only use one hideout at a time...

I'm not special or magical, so if I can do it, anyone can.

You realistically need only 1 hideout (none really, but lets say 1), and it isn't mandatory to decorate it, nor is there a special reward if you do.

I think the problem is that you're wanting a thing to happen faster when it's designed specifically to not happen faster, to be a longer term goal.

There has been added an import/export system with a steady amount of new hideouts/decorations since 3.5 for a reason : precisely to increase the number of possibilities to make the hideout system another type of endgame content if the player is up to dedicate himself to it.

It is perfectly fine to me to have to grind to get what you want, now it has to be the slightest bit realistic : if i have to pay tens of exalted to get only 9-10m favour, this'd turn out as not being viable in terms of time spent/reward, and in the end 99% of people would give up.

The system was fine prior to 3.5, there were plenty of rotations, prophecies were very helpful and all of a sudden they decided to strike it with an axe with a more restrictive system (you now need specific maps to do your dailies), dailies rotations no longer exist (despite GGG's will imho), and they disabled "A Gracious Master" prophecy which was quite helpful. It is so hard that most people i know who are completely dedicated to it have already given up grinding it, which is imho for the least not the intention of GGG.

From another thread : I think they just didn't address the issue internally with a follow up of their new system once the changeover was done. They did the hardest part : making an import/export system with a new hideout interface and a substantial increase of new hideouts but the less technically demanding part, the balancing, was completely sidelined from what i see. It'd require very little time to tweak some numbers (favour gain/costs) as the systems are already in place.

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Synopsis wrote:

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klokwerkaos wrote:

I don't see this as a problem, your hideout stuff carries over between leagues.

having a hideout worth 15M is an aspirational goal, meaning, it's not something the general casual player will have.

Frankly I've got several baller hideouts and they are deco'd and eyebleeding with particle effects with about as much crap as I can fit in them without clipping and stacking stuff upon stuff upon stuff, and I'm a new player as of halfway through 3.5, and I can only use one hideout at a time...

I'm not special or magical, so if I can do it, anyone can.

You realistically need only 1 hideout (none really, but lets say 1), and it isn't mandatory to decorate it, nor is there a special reward if you do.

I think the problem is that you're wanting a thing to happen faster when it's designed specifically to not happen faster, to be a longer term goal.

There has been added an import/export system with a steady amount of new hideouts/decorations since 3.5 for a reason : precisely to increase the number of possibilities to make the hideout system another type of endgame content if the player is up to dedicate himself to it.

It is perfectly fine to me to have to grind to get what you want, now it has to be the slightest bit realistic : if i have to pay tens of exalted to get only 9-10m favour, this'd turn out as not being viable in terms of time spent/reward, and in the end 99% of people would give up.

The system was fine prior to 3.5, there were plenty of rotations, prophecies were very helpful and all of a sudden they decided to strike it with an axe with a more restrictive system (you now need specific maps to do your dailies), dailies rotations no longer exist (despite GGG's will imho), and they disabled "A Gracious Master" prophecy which was quite helpful. It is so hard that most people i know who are completely dedicated to it have already given up grinding it, which is imho for the least not the intention of GGG.

From another thread : I think they just didn't address the issue internally with a follow up of their new system once the changeover was done. They did the hardest part : making an import/export system with a new hideout interface and a substantial increase of new hideouts but the less technically demanding part, the balancing, was completely sidelined from what i see. It'd require very little time to tweak some numbers (favour gain/costs) as the systems are already in place.

I mean yeah, people are saying it was easier before... but so?

I mean, I did it without it being easier. Why can't anyone else? I'm not magical.

I get that it's frustrating when new stuff is super great and then gets a nerf, but that also happens every single league yeah?

For example, farming betrayal was much easier in league than it is now, why? Because every map had a betrayal proc, just like now every map has a synthesis proc.

You have an easier time at first if you're there for it, then things taper off and that's how it goes.

I'm seeing that there is dissatisfaction with the new numbers, but I'm not seeing a valid reason why this is so wrong, terrible and impossible for anyone.

You know how I get favor? I run maps. Just run more of them and you'll get more favor. It's a thing. You might not get 1 million a day, but you'll be able to add at least 1 high priced or a few smaller items every day if you make it a priority, and I don't even make it a priority, I just focus on doing other things and collect favor passively and then deco when I have a bunch laying around.

And again, it's all optional content. There is no reward for decorating your dojo in game, nor achievement. All you get out of it is aesthetic pleasure, and that's a wonderful thing, but it's also something that is fine to earn rather than be demanded.

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klokwerkaos wrote:

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Synopsis wrote:

"

klokwerkaos wrote:

I don't see this as a problem, your hideout stuff carries over between leagues.

having a hideout worth 15M is an aspirational goal, meaning, it's not something the general casual player will have.

Frankly I've got several baller hideouts and they are deco'd and eyebleeding with particle effects with about as much crap as I can fit in them without clipping and stacking stuff upon stuff upon stuff, and I'm a new player as of halfway through 3.5, and I can only use one hideout at a time...

I'm not special or magical, so if I can do it, anyone can.

You realistically need only 1 hideout (none really, but lets say 1), and it isn't mandatory to decorate it, nor is there a special reward if you do.

I think the problem is that you're wanting a thing to happen faster when it's designed specifically to not happen faster, to be a longer term goal.

There has been added an import/export system with a steady amount of new hideouts/decorations since 3.5 for a reason : precisely to increase the number of possibilities to make the hideout system another type of endgame content if the player is up to dedicate himself to it.

It is perfectly fine to me to have to grind to get what you want, now it has to be the slightest bit realistic : if i have to pay tens of exalted to get only 9-10m favour, this'd turn out as not being viable in terms of time spent/reward, and in the end 99% of people would give up.

The system was fine prior to 3.5, there were plenty of rotations, prophecies were very helpful and all of a sudden they decided to strike it with an axe with a more restrictive system (you now need specific maps to do your dailies), dailies rotations no longer exist (despite GGG's will imho), and they disabled "A Gracious Master" prophecy which was quite helpful. It is so hard that most people i know who are completely dedicated to it have already given up grinding it, which is imho for the least not the intention of GGG.

From another thread : I think they just didn't address the issue internally with a follow up of their new system once the changeover was done. They did the hardest part : making an import/export system with a new hideout interface and a substantial increase of new hideouts but the less technically demanding part, the balancing, was completely sidelined from what i see. It'd require very little time to tweak some numbers (favour gain/costs) as the systems are already in place.

I mean yeah, people are saying it was easier before... but so?

I mean, I did it without it being easier. Why can't anyone else? I'm not magical.

I get that it's frustrating when new stuff is super great and then gets a nerf, but that also happens every single league yeah?

For example, farming betrayal was much easier in league than it is now, why? Because every map had a betrayal proc, just like now every map has a synthesis proc.

You have an easier time at first if you're there for it, then things taper off and that's how it goes.

I'm seeing that there is dissatisfaction with the new numbers, but I'm not seeing a valid reason why this is so wrong, terrible and impossible for anyone.

You know how I get favor? I run maps. Just run more of them and you'll get more favor. It's a thing. You might not get 1 million a day, but you'll be able to add at least 1 high priced or a few smaller items every day if you make it a priority, and I don't even make it a priority, I just focus on doing other things and collect favor passively and then deco when I have a bunch laying around.

And again, it's all optional content. There is no reward for decorating your dojo in game, nor achievement. All you get out of it is aesthetic pleasure, and that's a wonderful thing, but it's also something that is fine to earn rather than be demanded.

No, nerfing to the ground a whole part of the game doesn't happen every single league (and Jun wasn't a master in Betrayal). Saying that running 3k maps "has nothing magical" is not a point. A content is defined "optional" by your needs : Shaper, or Uber elder is completely optional for most people but it wouldn't justify them as being unbalanced though.

There is an obvious problem with that system considering the number of people who are unsatisfied with it since 3.5 . Crushing a system that was working well since The Forsaken Masters expansion (2014) cannot be justified by a "this is only decorations after all", if they did put the time and effort to make all this stuff it's not for nothing. It is an obvious lack of follow up and is surely not working as intended. Hopefully it'll be fixed in 3.7.

As you didn't play earlier i invite you to read this thread for more info on favour.

at this point, how about just fuck it and give us an option to BUY the favor? like click helena, and buy 1 mil rep for exalt for example. i would honestly prefer that instead of grinding, cause i havent enjoyed the game since delve, i just wanna make cute hideouts

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Buttwoman wrote:

at this point, how about just fuck it and give us an option to BUY the favor? like click helena, and buy 1 mil rep for exalt for example. i would honestly prefer that instead of grinding, cause i havent enjoyed the game since delve, i just wanna make cute hideouts

why not buying master favour with ggg points? it's purely decorational and they're already selling hideouts for real money in supporter packs.


the issue i see, putting real money into the equation might block options to exploit the hideout item tech for other purposes.

like, i could easily see them having players creating their own maps using master's items to run them with other players. but even there, real money wouldn't be a problem

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Buttwoman wrote:

at this point, how about just fuck it and give us an option to BUY the favor? like click helena, and buy 1 mil rep for exalt for example. i would honestly prefer that instead of grinding, cause i havent enjoyed the game since delve, i just wanna make cute hideouts

I'd love to get an option like that instead of having to spend tens of hours buying hundreds of scarabs one by one by spamming the trade channels/people. But i fear it would be against the grindy spirit of the game, even if after all you should be able to spend the money you got as you wish.

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Synopsis wrote:

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Buttwoman wrote:

at this point, how about just fuck it and give us an option to BUY the favor? like click helena, and buy 1 mil rep for exalt for example. i would honestly prefer that instead of grinding, cause i havent enjoyed the game since delve, i just wanna make cute hideouts

I'd love to get an option like that instead of having to spend tens of hours buying hundreds of scarabs one by one by spamming the trade channels/people. But i fear it would be against the grindy spirit of the game, even if after all you should be able to spend the money you got as you wish.

hmmm maybe i should put that as a suggestion officially! although i also dont believe they will implement it, but their current system sucks balls and they know it, so maybe they do! idk lets seee!

also @vio: they probably wont make favor points possible to buy for irl money because that would be the first time in the history of poe that you could buy something for both ingame currency and irl currency (at least that i know of). also not to mention that would be kinda immoral :( although if they could make a hideout competition where they put people with and without mtx decors against one another, it doesnt look like they care about whats moral and whats not :p

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Synopsis wrote:

No, nerfing to the ground a whole part of the game doesn't happen every single league (and Jun wasn't a master in Betrayal). Saying that running 3k maps "has nothing magical" is not a point. A content is defined "optional" by your needs : Shaper, or Uber elder is completely optional for most people but it wouldn't justify them as being unbalanced though.

There is an obvious problem with that system considering the number of people who are unsatisfied with it since 3.5 . Crushing a system that was working well since The Forsaken Masters expansion (2014) cannot be justified by a "this is only decorations after all", if they did put the time and effort to make all this stuff it's not for nothing. It is an obvious lack of follow up and is surely not working as intended. Hopefully it'll be fixed in 3.7.

As you didn't play earlier i invite you to read this thread for more info on favour.

I see what you're saying, I just disagree that a strictly cosmetic aspect of the game is integral to the core gamplay. I view it as a "more optional" piece of content because of that.

Don't get me wrong, I love decorating crap, i think it's super fun to personalize stuff in games and my hideouts reflect that. To me though, gameplay, while many modes are "decidedly optional" they aren't what I would call aspirational if they are staples of the gameplay.

I don't necessarily agree that beating shaper is "strictly optional" unless you're being very literal to the extreme of saying "playing the game at all is optional" and here is why...

I would argue that the major thrust of endgame revolves around completing uber elder since there is a questline for that, meaning, it is part of the core gameplay experience (at endgame) as intended by the designers.

Saying you have to do side stuff like delve or temples is, sorta optional since you don't "technically have to" in order to complete the endgame quest, but it really makes a huge difference in your level/rate of progress.

Stuff like deco has no bearing at all on your endgame pursuits outside of itself, and is strictly unnecessary to complete all other mechanics, core or supporting. There is no statistical advantage in gameplay other than a possible placebo as a slight moral bonus the first couple of times you hear that someone who shows up to trade says "cool hideout dude" and even that gets old after awhile.

Also just to clear up, I did play the game when it first came out, though not when masters were introduced, so the thrust of your argument is correct, but I didn't want to misrepresent anything going forward.

The reputation gain compared to before is bad enough that im less inclined to actually do maps and other content.

+1 to gracious master prophecy returning
If its leveling peoples masters too fast simply let it only give Favour not Reputation.

Add back the daily master missions or some other kind of daily task that fits within the new masters design that ONLY gives Favour that doesn't require having a specific map to run and that stays consistently within range of your masters Level so that you aren't getting t1 map daily's when you're level 92 at max master level.

Cant buy anything really with that, Hideouts are important to me because the aesthetic is of my choosing, i can create an atmosphere which is relaxing for me and my eyes.

Most endgame content is done in the hideout via maps so anyone arguing that its not important i have to question exactly what kind of content they are running.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

The reputation gain compared to before is bad enough that im less inclined to actually do maps and other content.

+1 to gracious master prophecy returning
If its leveling peoples masters too fast simply let it only give Favour not Reputation.

Add back the daily master missions or some other kind of daily task that fits within the new masters design that ONLY gives Favour that doesn't require having a specific map to run and that stays consistently within range of your masters Level so that you aren't getting t1 map daily's when you're level 92 at max master level.

Cant buy anything really with that, Hideouts are important to me because the aesthetic is of my choosing, i can create an atmosphere which is relaxing for me and my eyes.

Most endgame content is done in the hideout via maps so anyone arguing that its not important i have to question exactly what kind of content they are running.

map dailies are based off the last tier of map you ran before reset.
though the amount of favor the dailies give is abysmal - it should be x5 or x10 as we need a quick way to gain favor since it only lets us create hideouts.

This would be the simplest fix and i do not understand why they do not apply it as a bandaid until a better solution is worked out.

They also need to increase hideout decoration limits for the larger scale hideouts.