Favour gain needs to be tweaked to make the hideout system viable and accessible

TLDR :

1 - The current system is not viable since the massive nerf to favour from 3.5 (no longer daily bonus, rotations are dead, the prophecy "A Gracious Master" has been disabled, many decorations are worth 150k+ favour up to 360k, scarabs are a lot rarer since 3.6, ...).

=>Now for a 15m hideout you need to do on average : 3 000 t11 maps or 1500 t11 maps + 1500 scarabs.

=>That'd take 125 days if you play 2 hrs/day or 62.5 days for 4hrs/day (if a map takes on average 5 mns to be done).

2 - There's not any other alternative to farm it efficiently so either you grind and bear it or you give up.

3 - There're quick and easy solutions to fix it (increase favour gained, bring back the daily favour bonus, re-enable "A Gracious Master" prophecy).

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Let's start...
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With 3.5 a very nice system of import/export hideout has been added to the game on one hand, but on the other hand the main means of favour farming were massively nerfed (daily bonus removed, daily rotations are dead, "a gracious master" prophecy has been disabled, many decorations are sold 150k+ up to 360k, scarabs are since 3.6 a LOT rarer ...).

It is now unbelievably hard to get favour as there is no good way to farm it, and scarabs are just inacessible in terms of cost (see some calculations below).

If you want this system to be the slightest bit accessible it needs to be tweaked a bit to make it great, as the main systems are already in place (import/export , dailies). It's just about adjusting some numbers to make it viable or most people won't ever know how satisfying it is to play with a fully decorated hideout.

I measured the favour gain/mission for each map tier, here's what i obtained :




Now some figures...
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1 - Let's say a fully decorated hideout is in the range of 5-25m, so i'd put the cost to 15m on average (you can verify it on poe.house and hideoutshowcase.com).

2 - Now let's say the average tier played is a T11, for a gain of ~10k favour/map.

3 - From experience, i'd say that a master pops every 2 maps.

=> So we'd need in theory 15m/10k x 2 = 3 000 t11 maps/missions to get 1 hideout done.

- If a map takes on average 5 mns to be done, we'd need 125 days to reach that number if we play 2 hrs/day or 62.5 days if we play 4 hrs/day... (thanks to drklrd for this - see comment section for detail).

- If every 2 hours we do a break of 5 mns, plus we take into account the loading times/trades for 5 mns, then we should at least add (250hrs/every 2 hrs) x 10 mns = 1 250 mns / 60 mns ~= 21 hours or 10.5 days (2 hrs/day) or 5.25 days (4 hrs/day).


If we price it...
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Let's be clear, i'm not talking about someone who does the entire map and tries to sustain but a speed favour farmer who only wants to do the master's mission.

- If we say that the average price of a T11 is 3c, it'd cost 3 000 x 3c = 9 000 chaos (or 75 ex with a 1:120 ratio).

- If now we decide to use the cheapest scarabs to be fast (rusted bestiary scarabs) and we set the average price to 6c, we'd obtain a total cost of 1 500 x 3c + 1 500 x 6c = 13 500 chaos (or 112.5 ex with a 1:120 ratio).

There is a reason why i almost never see anyone with a fully decorated hideout (even imported), this system is currently not viable at all and is accessible only to a tiny amount of people : either you have to be very rich or you need to have played prior to 3.5 when favour was way more easy to get.


Solutions...
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Many solutions have been suggested here

Basically there are two things that can be done : either increasing favour gain, or reducing the favour costs (or a mix of both).

If we keep the favour costs to the same level, then favour gain must be drastically increased.

I'll emphasize 3 simple resource-wise solutions that are very quick to execute :

- Increase favour gain x 3 : we'd get the hideout in "only" 1000 maps instead of 3000, it doesn't look unreasonable to me.

- Bring back the daily favour bonus (it was x 3 previously but with the previous increase x 2 would be very good).

- Bring back "A Gracious Master" prophecy which was disabled with 3.5 (x 3 favour gained).

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If you are interested to discuss hideout stuff and/or grind favour you can consider joining the discord
group dedicated to it.

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drklrd wrote:

3 000 maps at 5 minutes per map means an average of 12 per hour.
3000/12 = 250 hours to get 15 mil favour for your favourite hideout.
250 /2 = 125 days at a casual rate of 2 hours per day
250 /1 = 250 days at a casual rate of 1 hour per day

So ... yeah. Favour is fine. Just.Grind.It.

Thanks for the relevant message ! I added it to my post.

Yeah, it's become crazy hard to grind it (and i can confirm it these are not just theoritical numbers as i farm favour). I find it a pure waste of the import/export system that could benefit to anyone considering how it improves massively the experience of the game when you've got a fully decorated hideout.

And why is there a limit on decorations -.-

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I_NO wrote:

And why is there a limit on decorations -.-

client memory usage and max load times for hideouts on toasters with cranks.

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drklrd wrote:

3 000 maps at 5 minutes per map means an average of 12 per hour.
3000/12 = 250 hours to get 15 mil favour for your favourite hideout.
250 /2 = 125 days at a casual rate of 2 hours per day
250 /1 = 250 days at a casual rate of 1 hour per day

So ... yeah. Favour is fine. Just.Grind.It.

I got 2.6 million since betrayal ended and im not intending to play more

So basically 2 more years for another hideout

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vio wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

And why is there a limit on decorations -.-

client memory usage and max load times for hideouts on toasters with cranks.

screw the toasters
let them have a longer time before disconnect to hideouts and increase the limit of decorations for those of us living in the modern age.

it should be increased to 1200 or so and favor gains should either be :\

1 increased to allow everyone to make multiple hideouts
2 have a guaranteed master of x type on a given map at all times , so that you can farm them all day.

they really need to fix the favour system, it is so frustrating. it takes months of farming to build a hideout.

The reason why i was still playing was to farm a hideout untill i found out how long it takes to farm.

Once i realized i quit.

I personnally find the favour farm system pretty frustrating, i farm favour how i can since 4-5 months 2-3H/day (doing my daily in standard+synth), only get like 8'000'000 (not only farming t16, i have to grind my character / map etc...)


Cost of decorations is expensiv, don't know why, when we think about the fact that it is only decoration, that it doesn't interest the majority of players, and that you have to unlock master levels.


By the way, i think that favour should be possible to be sold/given, when players don't care, to let others use it.


And my personnal question that i usually can't forget is :

" Why Helena, first pnj concern by Hideout, don't sell decorations ? "

It would have been great to have Level for her, and you grind her level by Hideout you own.

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vio wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

And why is there a limit on decorations -.-

client memory usage and max load times for hideouts on toasters with cranks.

A couple years back I had a HO that would cause people with Toasters to crash when they came to buy stuff from me. It was tons of fun to pretend not to know what was happening

I don't see this as a problem, your hideout stuff carries over between leagues.

having a hideout worth 15M is an aspirational goal, meaning, it's not something the general casual player will have.

Frankly I've got several baller hideouts and they are deco'd and eyebleeding with particle effects with about as much crap as I can fit in them without clipping and stacking stuff upon stuff upon stuff, and I'm a new player as of halfway through 3.5, and I can only use one hideout at a time...

I'm not special or magical, so if I can do it, anyone can.

You realistically need only 1 hideout (none really, but lets say 1), and it isn't mandatory to decorate it, nor is there a special reward if you do.

I think the problem is that you're wanting a thing to happen faster when it's designed specifically to not happen faster, to be a longer term goal.