News of the horrific shooting is making its way to the US.

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Head_Less wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

Islam NEVER tells people that others must be eliminated.

IS that a joke or you actually never read the coran and talk without knowing.

The bible, the Tora AND the Coran have calls to murder infidels. You can find those quotes yourself.

The tora and the bibble both say that jesus/abraham will return and then the people will be judged.

The quran however says explicitly that mohammad will not return untill the entire world is following the quran.

That's a significant difference in practice because it means both the christian and jewish religion have no direct justification for converting people which is apparent when you try to join those traditions.

Islam however has motivation to convert and subject people to reach their "end goal" which makes joining islam extremely easy.

Another thing to note is that leaving christian and jewish tradition is not detrimental to the person in question, while leaving islam in certain factions of that believe equals a death sentence or "slave status".

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : as for the reporters point, he is correct, the quran doesn't say people can be eliminated.
But it also says that humans who don't follow shari'ah or islamic tradition are not people.(slavery is allowed as is the degredation of women in shari'ah)

Catch 420 sort of thing.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

The guy listed the people who inspired/radicalized him. They have as much responsibility as him.

This is the same logic Tarrant used to hold the Islam itself responsible for acts of terrorism. Are you saying he was right to hold influencers accountable for the most radical among their following?

Islam NEVER tells people that others must be eliminated.

They don't tell people that others must be eliminated. Whether or not Islam does or doesn't is a matter of whether the faith is moderate (as it is with most Muslims) or fundamentalist. There are calls to kill in the Christian Bible, too.

One of the shooters, who isn't an American, does seem to think that Trump is a white supremacist. Where could he have gotten this idea from? Trump himself? No; anyone who listens to Trump long enough would have heard him denounce white supremacy, antisemitism and violence over and over again. Pro-Trump media? No; they also denounce those things. CNN? Now we're talking. Only in the leftwing corporatist media narrative is a white supremacist President of the United States.

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The_Reporter wrote:

This is the DEFINITION of bigotry and racism

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Necrotekk wrote:

That's quite literally racisim. Well, more like Religious Discrimination since ******s aren't a race.

Although I'd like to point out that, generally speaking, the victims of the Christchurch shootings were white Muslims. Because — and this should sound familiar — Muslim is not a race.

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Hornybull wrote:

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It doesn't necessarily matter how many differences a group has — what brings groups of people together, such as nations, is shared values. One person being gay and another person being Muslim doesn't interfere with unity until either the former's dedication to gayness supersedes and conflicts with his commitment to the shared value(s), or the latter's faith supersedes and conflicts with the shared value.

There's a reason I have to be vague about the shared value of Western civilization — increasingly, we don't have one. Prior to 1950(ish), it was Christianity; from 1950 to about 2000, it was capitalism (or perhaps more appropriately, anticommunism), as pushed by Cold War propaganda. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, however, there's been a God-shaped hole in the collective heart of Western civilization, and without something to fill it, some unifying principle, we're going to find major social schisms forming over the slightest ideological disagreements. If your solution to that problem is to separate the various groups as soon as they squabble with each other, you're not stopping this process of balkanization — you're merely trying to facilitate it in a nonviolent less violent manner.

I'm not a fan of Cold War propaganda (although I advocate for free market capitalism), nor theism (although I appreciate Judeochristian ethics). I don't think that should be what fills the hole. I think liberal nationalism should — specifically, the belief that, given a competing ideology, the superior ideology is the one that needn't destroy the other with violence (lest given no other option, in pure self-defense), but will prosper better if merely separated from its competitor(s). In short: you do you, I'm gonna do me. I strongly believe that race, religion, and even capitalism are secondary to this principle — that is, free market capitalism should be loved because it is good according to liberal standards, and not the other way around. We should be more committed to human prosperity and standard of living than we are to ideology, and liberal nationalism is the means to scientifically test which ideologies best perform according to such standards, by allowing each theory its own bordered, sovereign territory for its people to do as they please and as other people do not.

But hey, that's just me. Apparently lots of other people think humanity already has all the really important answers, and we should enforce a single system upon everyone, whether they like it or not, for their own good. Fundamentalist Muslims, for example.

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Head_Less wrote:

Tarrant also disavowed President Trump from the standpoint of his policies and decisions, answering the question, “Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump” with the words, “Dear god no.”

Source please? Making up stuff about the shooter's ideology is common in these types of situations, unfortunately. You may have been hoaxed.

But if true, TDS_Reporter is wrong in his assumption that the shooters were inspired by Trump. Again, if.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

Islam is a religion of hate

Every historically successful religion allows hate, even murderous hate, in the case of groups that at some point or another roughly lined up with enemy combatants. From an natural selection perspective, religions had to adapt to be suitable for war propaganda. From certain fundamentalist perspectives, Christianity and Judaism are religions of hate, too.

But just as the vast majority of Christians and practicing Jews are not particularly hateful, it's highly misleading at best to say Islam is a religion of hate. Most Islamic thought is centered around family and community, not around hatred and war.

That said, Islam is a bit more warlike than its counterparts. Not fundamentally different from, but the most troublesome of the three, I'd reckon.

"My sympathies to your country and all affected."

I concur and from the US, I hope all the staff at GGG are ok and their families/friends as well.

- Rax

I thought this level of hate only brewed in america, with this asshole people voted into office. I'm very disappointed it's reaching the usual peaceful countries.

While we've sadly gotten used to these horrific events every few weeks thanks to social media giving a platform to every hateful crackpot out there, it somehow makes it worse it was in NZ of all places.

I feel bad for the unfortunate mods who have to look through and moderate this thread. Time to take my leave of off topic once more.

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HappyRogue wrote:

I thought this level of hate only brewed in america, with this asshole people voted into office. I'm very disappointed it's reaching the usual peaceful countries.

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/we-are-not-calling-for-the-slaughtering-of-white-people-at-least-for-now-malema/

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Boem wrote:

edit : as for the reporters point, he is correct, the quran doesn't say people can be eliminated.

Quran 2:191 for example.

BTW we can share our solidarity for the victims by helping them financially here

https://jfedpgh.org/new-zealand
https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-victims-fund

2nd link seems to have too much traffic right now.

Sympathy to all. Nowhere is safe. Toxic rationalisation at every extreme reaches out everywhere, amplified by the social sewers.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

John Donne 1624

After reading through the thread, though, and seeing some responses, I am reminded why I prefer to play SSF.

A hug to any humans out there.

MeJ

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Head_Less wrote:

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Boem wrote:

edit : as for the reporters point, he is correct, the quran doesn't say people can be eliminated.

Quran 2:191 for example.

BTW we can share our solidarity for the victims by helping them financially here

https://jfedpgh.org/new-zealand
https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-victims-fund

2nd link seems to have too much traffic right now.

You're a Quran expert now? There are a lot of similar verses in the Bible. But there are also peaceful verses in both.

Abrahamaic religion is evangelic religion, so at one time there are call for war, other time peace.

You don't see Muslims running around killing people everywhere, as well Christians and Jews, because CONTEXT. of course fanatics in these religion will use whatever justifications from the holy books to do whatever things they wanted, but most religious peoples are peaceful

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Head_Less wrote:

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Boem wrote:

edit : as for the reporters point, he is correct, the quran doesn't say people can be eliminated.

Quran 2:191 for example.

What's the logic behind quoting half of what i typed, presenting it out of context and then pasting a quran verse behind it as to "make a point".

Do people actually hold conversations like this, fuck the state of dialogue.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit :

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Boem wrote:

edit : as for the reporters point, he is correct, the quran doesn't say people can be eliminated.
But it also says that humans who don't follow shari'ah or islamic tradition are not people.(slavery is allowed as is the degredation of women in shari'ah)

Catch 420 sort of thing.

Legit same context between your quote and what i actually wrote down.