{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀

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myshild wrote:

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Sorator13 wrote:

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myshild wrote:

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True enough about the movement speed part. Have had some other problems as I am unused to the skill as well. Have teleported directly into crumbled memory because I can't see the end point with all the effects going off. Can't change it after it is fully charged. Which is why I have been considering blade flurry instead.

Yeah, you do have to be careful where you're aiming it. While it's charging you can steer it to either side, which can be handy. But if your positioning makes using charged dash risky... don't! Your minions can kill stuff just fine without you using charged dash/ball lightning (summon some skeletons if need be, and/or use shield charge to proc holy relic's AoE).

Just gotta learn what the max range of charged dash is, so you can tell when it's not safe to use it.

Hey again, about the jewel socket near Scion starter area, why do you take % mana instead of % life regen ? I don't feel like I need mana for anything else than spawning zombies, which only happens when they die, they do that a few times since I haven't done uber yet <.< and lv 88 (and a half) should do it later today, but wouldn't life regen be slightly better even tho it's only 0,7% compared to 16% mana increase (which I don't know what we use for rather than more base regen (if I'm not mistaken it works like, bigger pool = bigger base regen)

Loving the guide.

This is one of the most detailed and well written guides I have read in my entire ARPG-gaming life, so thank you for that. Very entertaining. I'm an old player which tried many summoners too since the old times back in close beta 2012 and I find some things I didn't know.

Currently level 92. I made some changes, didn't like Charge Dash nor Shield Charge, so relaying on Phase Run (love it) and Frost Blades. Feels better for me. Charge Dash is fun, but gives you some deaths in area situations, fire breathing Kitava, etc. Anyway, a matter of taste.

Also, I love Convocation. I know you don't like it, but in my experience with summoners it makes me kill things like 2x faster most of the time. Its like insta-trillions dps in your face, move things out of areas when needed, reposition, etc. Another matter of taste though.


I have some exalteds now, which one should I invest now as priority?

I got Empower but is level 2 yet. Not sure if I should use it or wait. I tried it a couple times and looked like less damage.




Belt and amu are just temporary, to get some life and max res.
Jewels can be seen on my tree, I think I'm fine in jewels for now.


Should I get a belly? Or others things should come fast?

Can't thank you enough for making this guide. Nice art too, love the pics for us necro-freaks :)



PS question: Uber Atziri doable?

What if you had a 6L Queen's Escape?

Do you think loosing the movement speed of shield charge for stronger skeletons worth it ?

@ ImAncient and shipwhreck:

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ImAncient wrote:

Any way to work Arakaali's Fang Fiend Dagger into the build? Seems like that weapon might need to balance the summons around some.

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shipwhreck wrote:

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ImAncient wrote:

Getting them is easy enough :) If you drop corps before using the Writhing Jar, you get up to 18 or 20. The exact process would be summon corpses, set off fire ball, then use writhing jar. The writhing jar also doubles as a heal flask too!

Questions are: good addition summons? are those weapon enhancements ok? Need to switch critters around?

And thank you for the answer!

Decided to invest and play around. Check out my character 81 necro. I'll be keeping this build. No charged dash anymore. Basically. desecrate > writhing jar a few. Cast writhing jar while whirling through packs to refresh. I have 20 up at all times. Agony crawler is up most times (when needed) due to whirling blades and melee splash.

I'll also be swapping my neck and chest for astramentis and dendrobate. I'm not sure the poison damage and duration will do much, but the lesser poison on my spectres and evasion can't hurt!

For the record: These spiders when linked with melee damage/splash/minion damage are naaaaaaasty

There's an entry in the FAQ about Arakaali's Fang. I was even testing out an Occultist build using it.

My conclusion is the Spiders are best on bosses, where their melee isn't as much a hindrance and their invulnerability has the greatest value. But this is also where flasks are most limited, so their duration becomes paramount.

In exchange, you lose Zombies, which means you also lose the Physical Damage Reduction. They need the +5 to +7 levels to survive endgame bosses, where that PDR is most valuable.

Agony Crawler also needs to be moved or dropped. Level stacking is very important on it, too, as it gets a compounding benefit of higher monster level, higher accuracy, and higher Virulence bonuses.

Fireball or Whirling Blades are not reliable to kill worms (Melee Splash does not work with Whirling Blades, either, as it's not a single-target skill). The reason is when you use the flask, the worms are thrown out further than the distance of Blade Vortex in random directions. In a split second, Spectres and other minions target and kill the worms before you have a chance to figure out where the worms are landing, let alone aiming or casting. You want a big AOE skill, so no aiming, that hits rapidly, so no delay for minions to killsteal, and lingers, so you have a longer opening to use the flask, to ensure reliable worm kills. Ball Lightning is probably the best spell for this.

If your Agony Crawler is not at 40 Virulence, it deals exponentially less damage the less Virulence you have.

Agony Crawler's Shaper DPS at Differing Virulence
789,681 (40 Virulence)
618,559 (35 Virulence)
473,438 (30 Virulence)
352,254 (25 Virulence)
252,966 (20 Virulence)
173,511 (15 Virulence)
111,838 (10 Virulence)
65,896 (5 Virulence)

There is no way you can maintain anything close to 40 Virulence off of Whirling Blades, even with a dense pack.

The Poison Damage and Duration of Dendrobate will only affect you, not your minions. Lesser Poison will allow Spectres and Phantasms to poison, but this would only help with capping Vile Toxins, which is unnecessary when Ball Lighting does this in one and a half casts.

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@ strohmdohm:

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strohmdohm wrote:

Would it be possible to work in Storm Brand + Brand Recall in place of Ball Lightning so I can be lazy? What kind of hit would Virulence take? It looks like we could work in the passives above Spiritual Aid and the cluster near the Witch starting area to bump up the number of brands and hit frequency to offset the slow cast interval of Storm Brand versus Ball Lightning.

It doesn't hit nearly enough on a single target. Unless:

1. With a base activation frequency of 0.5 seconds, that's 2 hits/sec.
2. With the Runebinder keystone (-4 passive points), we can attach a second brand.
3. With ~100% increased cast speed (49% from Faster Casting Support, 15% from current tree [Retribution, Coordination, Necromancer node], 5% from Runebinder path, not sure about the rest; Spell Echo won't work because it's More), we'd double its activation frequency.
5. With a Golden Rule jewel (-1 jewel socket), we can double our Virulence by poisoning ourselves (yes, it works).
6. With part of the Fatal Toxin cluster (-3 passive points), we can get the last 20% chance to poison to cap us at 100% chance.

2 base * 2 keystone * 2 cast speed * 2 golden rule = 16 poisons per second.

For comparison, Ball Lightning gives us, based on radius of target, @80% poison chance:

2 radius = 17 hits / 14 Virulence per sec.
4 radius = 20 hits / 16
8 radius = 23 hits / 18
12 radius = 26 hits / 21
14 radius = 29 hits / 23
18 radius = 31 hits / 25
22 radius = 34 hits / 27

So you can do it, but it'll require around 10 or more passive points and 31% additional increased cast speed from somewhere.

The Mistress of Sacrifice ascendancy could solve that, maybe. You could use Charged Dash + CwC + Spirit Offering. Then use Spell Totem + Unearth + GMP + Multiple Totems (needed since we took Runebinder). But fitting that when you already need sockets for Storm Brand + Faster Casting + Poison (+ Lesser Poison to save passive points and take back a jewel socket) will require dropping something. Although the constant ES from spamming Spirit Offering would be nice, this just ends up being a convoluted way to achieve the same thing as the original setup.

Gloves1: Storm Brand + Faster Casting (+ Poison as Elder Affix)
Gloves2: Hatred + Generosity (break links so Faster Casting doesn't affect)
Shield: Charged Dash + CwC + Spirit Offering
Boots1: Unearth + GMP + Multiple Totems (+ Spell Totem as Elder Affix)
Boots2: Any spell here will be supported by Spell Totem, so maybe Vigilant Strike to get Fortify? Kind of janky.

No, a better idea would be Bubonic Trail boots and making a carpet of Desecrate + Spell Cascade to run/Shield Charge over.

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@ sokiane:

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sokiane wrote:

Hey again, about the jewel socket near Scion starter area, why do you take % mana instead of % life regen ? I don't feel like I need mana for anything else than spawning zombies, which only happens when they die, they do that a few times since I haven't done uber yet <.< and lv 88 (and a half) should do it later today, but wouldn't life regen be slightly better even tho it's only 0,7% compared to 16% mana increase (which I don't know what we use for rather than more base regen (if I'm not mistaken it works like, bigger pool = bigger base regen)

It's your choice. Go with what you need.

My claw had two Support affixes, so Agony reservation was to where that little extra mana and regen meant I could comfortably cast all my Skeletons and whatnot. We don't get much of any increased mana, so that 16% is pretty much 16% More.

The 0.7% regen would be nice to combat degens, but while mapping the Life Gain on Hit will be pulling most of the weight.

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@ Naralh:

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Naralh wrote:

What if you had a 6L Queen's Escape?

Do you think loosing the movement speed of shield charge for anabolized skeletons worth it ?

We don't usually use Skeletons while mapping, so their movement speed isn't as important when we're just casting them directly on top of bosses. The duration would be fantastic for Vaal Skeletons, but you'd be losing a hell of a lot by dropping Victario's Charity and +1 Maim claw. It's not worth it.

You could move Zombies/Crawler to helm, so they'd get +3, Maim, Empower, and Minion Damage; Skeletons to 6-link sword with Minion Damage and Empower taking the last two sockets; drop CWDT+Spirit Offering for a dodge skill (Flame Dash, Phase Run, Leap Slam); and replace GMP on Charged Dash with Fortify. So despite how great a 6-link seems, you end up losing three sockets for a bit more Zombie/Crawler damage and higher Agony reservation.

For 60sec Vaal Skeletons, 32% faster Skeleton movement speed (210% + 100% is 47% more), a 6-link (high cost, little gain), and +1 Spectre/Skeleton/Zombie, you lose:

Mobility: Shield Charge
Frenzy Charges: 45% attack/cast speed, 15% movement speed, 12% more damage for all minions
Life: 70 (= 210 @200% or 252 @260%)
Resistances: 8% all, 30% lightning, 11% chaos
Block: 17% (with 40% dodge = 50% avoidance)
Aura AOE: 20%
Weapon multi-mod crafts: Minions have 28% increased Damage/Life, +2 to Socketed Support Gems, Minions have 15% increased Attack/Cast Speed
Sockets: +3 due to affix support gems

Thanks a LOT!
I will follow your advice wise master of the undeads.

@ Valmar:

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Valmar wrote:

Loving the guide.

This is one of the most detailed and well written guides I have read in my entire ARPG-gaming life, so thank you for that. Very entertaining. I'm an old player which tried many summoners too since the old times back in close beta 2012 and I find some things I didn't know.

Glad to help! =o] Out of curiosity, what were some of the things you learned?

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Valmar wrote:

Currently level 92. I made some changes, didn't like Charge Dash nor Shield Charge, so relaying on Phase Run (love it) and Frost Blades. Feels better for me. Charge Dash is fun, but gives you some deaths in area situations, fire breathing Kitava, etc. Anyway, a matter of taste.

Frost Blades will not hit nearly enough against a single boss. Don't forget you can use Blade Flurry instead of Charged Dash for a stationary channeled melee skill. This will allow you to continue using CwC Ball Lighting, which is one of the best rapid-hit skills in the entire game.

With Charged Dash, you want to keep your channeling brief to maximize your control and minimize your risk while maintaining forward momentum. This has the added benefit of blinking you out of the crosshairs of monsters. With GMP firing a cone of Ball Lightnings, you yourself can aim at an angle and still hit straight ahead. A zig-zag to sidestep incoming enemy projectiles.

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Valmar wrote:

Also, I love Convocation. I know you don't like it, but in my experience with summoners it makes me kill things like 2x faster most of the time. Its like insta-trillions dps in your face, move things out of areas when needed, reposition, etc. Another matter of taste though.

Oh, no, I like it. I'd put it on CWDT if we had the space. However, the cost of one socket is not worth it when you can make minions teleport to you just through moving forward quickly. We generally want to be moving at that speed while mapping anyway, so Convocation becomes dead weight.

Frost Sentinels have such great range that being further back is actually good, because their projectiles fan out more to cover a much larger area, which creates Phantasms in more diverse locations for even better coverage and monster distraction. If you pull them in with Convocation, you lose that advantage and overly concentrate your damage in a narrow spot.

To illustrate, imagine a character who only has the single-target Default Attack, but it does Infinite Damage. He could one-shot Uber Elder. Now imagine a hundred monsters who all have 1 life. His Default Attack has an attack time of one second. Ignoring travel time (let's say the monsters move to him), it would take him 100 seconds to kill 100 monsters, despite having Infinite Damage.

Let's imagine a second character who has a screen-wide AOE spell that does 1 Damage. It also takes one second to cast. He'd kill all 100 monsters in 1 second.

100 seconds with infinite damage
vs.
1 second with 1 damage

The takeaway here is that damage doesn't matter. It's the required Hits to kill that matter. Damage is just an increment, where anything above one hit is wasted (unless using Herald of Ash with Overkill damage).

This is why I place greater value on coverage rather than damage for mapping, where most monsters only have ~6-16k base life compared to our minions that deal 20-60k per hit. You want spread-out minions to deal with spread-out monsters.

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Valmar wrote:

I have some exalteds now, which one should I invest now as priority?

I got Empower but is level 2 yet. Not sure if I should use it or wait. I tried it a couple times and looked like less damage.

Belt and amu are just temporary, to get some life and max res.
Jewels can be seen on my tree, I think I'm fine in jewels for now.

Should I get a belly? Or others things should come fast?

If you're dying at all, Belly will be ~800 life added to your survival.

LGoH for Spells ring will keep you at full life against most packs.

If your Zombies are dying, L4 Empower will give them more life.

21/20 Minion gems will be nice.

Ultimately, it depends on your goals and whether you have any issues. Priority would be Your Survival > Minion Survival > Damage. Improvements that hit two or more are best. Damage in many ways becomes survival, but you don't always get the first hit, or the last laugh.

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Valmar wrote:

Can't thank you enough for making this guide. Nice art too, love the pics for us necro-freaks :)

You're welcome! I have so much art stockpiled, I wonder if I'll ever get to use it all! =oP

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Valmar wrote:

PS question: Uber Atziri doable?

I haven't done it, but I don't anticipate any problems. Regular Atziri is a cakewalk. Vaal Temple was super easy. Uber Atziri deals massive damage, but it's telegraphed. You can replace Skeletons and the Agony Crawler is immortal. You might lose Spectres, and Zombies probably won't survive.

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@ myshild:

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Sorator13 wrote:

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myshild wrote:

Hello there.
I ended up going with this build as a starter. Currently at level 86.
Good clearer so far, but I am having trouble with the memory stuff.
Due to how they decay I am considering dropping shield charge and going for flame dash.

My only concern is losing the ability to apply fortify when needed.
GMP feels way to nice on CWC ball lightning to drop it for fortify.
Any thoughts around this topic?

Charged dash is not really good as a travel skill due to the lengthy channel time to reach max distance.

Personally I haven't had any issues using charged dash in decaying memories; it does have charge time, but it also has a greater max distance than flame dash, and I think that's helped me more often than the charge time has hurt.

You can minimize the need for it by paying attention to how the memories decay, though. They decay faster away from the stabilizers and slower close to them, so if (for example) you're on the south side and decay is coming in from the east, you're probably looking at a west or north stabilizer.

Also, charged dash is based on your movement speed, so you can pop a quicksilver if you need it to go faster. (That does mean it's significantly slower to charge/move if you're standing *in* decay, though, so you do have to try to hop from an "island" and not from within the decay.)

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Sorator13 wrote:

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myshild wrote:

True enough about the movement speed part. Have had some other problems as I am unused to the skill as well. Have teleported directly into crumbled memory because I can't see the end point with all the effects going off. Can't change it after it is fully charged. Which is why I have been considering blade flurry instead.

Yeah, you do have to be careful where you're aiming it. While it's charging you can steer it to either side, which can be handy. But if your positioning makes using charged dash risky... don't! Your minions can kill stuff just fine without you using charged dash/ball lightning (summon some skeletons if need be, and/or use shield charge to proc holy relic's AoE).

Just gotta learn what the max range of charged dash is, so you can tell when it's not safe to use it.

With practice, you'll learn the feel of where Charged Dash will put you depending on how long you charge, so you won't need to rely on seeing the illusion, which is easily lost amidst the chaos. Keep your channeling brief to maintain control and reduce risk. Stack movement speed to make it faster and more responsive.

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Hercanic wrote:

Glad to help! =o] Out of curiosity, what were some of the things you learned?

Well basically most maths stats. You know all your formulas and comments about them
Also some explanations with poison and the interations with HoAg adnt the virulence, Toxins, Bleed support, Poison gloves, added chaos damage here and there, etc. I didnt use those gems before, so it's nice when you guys not only make a guide but also explain things properly. Its really appreciated.

And some other nice staff.

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Hercanic wrote:

Frost Blades will not hit nearly enough against a single boss. Don't forget you can use Blade Flurry instead of Charged Dash for a stationary channeled melee skill.

Yeah lol I was meaning Blade Furry, which I am using. I just confused the skills name, lol^^



Cheers.

GUIDE UPDATE
Once again I've run out of room, this time with the FAQ. It is now in its own thread, which you can find here.

The FAQ link has been placed in the main guide, in the section, "I Have a Question (FAQ)". It will no longer be part of Feedback.

The old FAQ section in Feedback will remain temporarily. It will be removed after a grace period, so those expecting to find it there will not be confused during this transition.


Art by John Silva

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Hercanic wrote:

Out of curiosity, what were some of the things you learned?

Here is a summary of things I've learned from using this build for the past three months:

1. Spectres are for clearing, skeletons are for single target. Because:
* most have elemental resist
* no need to swap spectre support gems for single-target

2. Phantasms do not suck once you socket in Faster Projectiles

3. While most summoners follow the meta with Solar Guards, I already knew Frostbros improved survivability. But I didn't realize how much more frosty Elemental Proliferation is!

4. Mark of Submission is awesome. Since it applies the socketed curse from both casting spells (Ball Lightning) and melee (Shield Charge), you can curse the boss while still moving.

5. Given #4, Charged Dash + CWC + Ball Lightning + (GMP|Lesser Poison) is superior to Ball Lightning + Curse on Hit + curse + GMP because:
* It's much easier to change the socket color for the curse
* You teleport when stunned

6. The Agony Crawler is OP. And gorgeous with the celestial herald effect.

7. The Holy Crawler reduces zombie downtime. A big QoL improvement since resummoning means fiddling with my skill taskbar.

8. Yes, while leveling you really do want to buff skeletons with the Bone Sculptor ascendancy keystone before improving your spectres with Soul Weaver. And Flesh Binder works better than Commander of Darkness.

9. CWDT+Spirit Offering. Wow. Just wow. What a survivability boost.

10. With this build, Victaro's Charity will buff your minions even without Necromatic Aegis.

11. In red maps, 6000 effective life is such a quality of life improvement over 4000. How to get there?
* Belly of the Beast
* many many +50life jewels