{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀
@ everyone:
Blight League has ended. I would like to continue the Cenotaph'sTop 5 awards, but it has become trickier to determine who among the ladder was playing one of the several variations of this build or just something coincidentally similar. Here are the search parameters I'm thinking of using. If anyone doesn't fit under this, let me know!
Blight was the most popular time for this build since it's creation at the tailend of Delve one year ago. It was also quite a hectic time for this guide. We jumped from 118 pages to 286 pages, a gain of 168 pages in a single league. In the first 100 pages of the guide, I had already made 200 posts (20 pages worth), many containing responses to multiple people. Compared to that, I can only guess how many I answered in Blight. It's quite the blur!
Once again, for those who helped out by replying to others and contributing their experiences, thank you! With everyone's efforts, we ended the league as the second-most popular build (from viewcount) on poebuilds.cc, pretty much doubling the viewcount by another million:
Last edited by Hercanic#3982 on Dec 15, 2019, 3:28:21 PM
Minion movement speed nerf from ascendancy sucks and will be annoying. Zombie nerfs to CD, life, damage will also be annoying and they will go back to just being meat shields again rather than a decent source of DPS. Harder to get one more specter in endgame with the gem change. Regardless, this build will still be very good and I plan to league start, surprised they didn't fuck with skeletons with how strong they are, though the armor buff on late game enemies/bosses will likely be an indirect nerf to their damage.
As someone said in the Reddit patch notes thread, this is a massacre, but I think that's going to be true for *every* build.
You mention several different variants in your analysis. Is there a list of the variants people have been using? I assume, for instance, that when you say Charity Triad you're talking about the build I was using (1H with Victario's, Triad Grip with 4x green) but I'm not sure.
Edit: In particular, I think the Spectre nerf is huge and terrible. Either have to have Empower, or socket in a +2 to Minion gems helmet, or have some of source of +Level to gems.
Last edited by Kirian42#6752 on Dec 11, 2019, 8:22:45 PM
In particular, I think the Spectre nerf is huge and terrible. Either have to have Empower, or socket in a +2 to Minion gems helmet, or have some of source of +Level to gems.
This absolutely did not get massacred.
Losing one spectre won't hurt very much at all. I played it in 3.8 and by accident I didn't notice that I never maxed my spectre's out until like a week after I was farming endgame content. When I got the last spectre out I noticed literally no difference in clear speed.
The nerf to zombies is the biggest nerf to this build in 3.9. QOL/clear speed nerf due to the minions being slower sucks too and will be annoying but not build-breaking by any means.
Last edited by WeaponizedSP#6769 on Dec 11, 2019, 10:09:27 PM
In particular, I think the Spectre nerf is huge and terrible. Either have to have Empower, or socket in a +2 to Minion gems helmet, or have some of source of +Level to gems.
This absolutely did not get massacred.
Losing one spectre won't hurt very much at all. I played it in 3.8 and by accident I didn't notice that I never maxed my spectre's out until like a week after I was farming endgame content. When I got the last spectre out I noticed literally no difference in clear speed.
The nerf to zombies is the biggest nerf to this build in 3.9. QOL/clear speed nerf due to the minions being slower sucks too and will be annoying but not build-breaking by any means.
Same here, on learning of the Spectre nerf, I fired up a t16 and ran it with 3 Spectres. I cannot tell the difference. The move speed may slow us down a little but you can make up for most of it with minion move speed on your jewelry.
I could have sworn I remember seeing Death Bishops and other variations had a 10sec cooldown on casting their curse, but I'm not finding it on PoeDB anymore, so I'll have to test to verify.
The nice thing about the Death Bishop, though, is his curse offers 20% chance to freeze, which is more than the 14% of a L20 Frostbite (10% @L5).
Since your Animated Guardian already curses with Elemental Weakness, you'll just be replacing each other's curses if you try to use Frostbite as well. To apply two curses from separate sources, the Animated Guardian would need a chest with "additional curse" crafted, and you'd also need a source of +1 curse if using the CoH ring. The game uses the curse limit of whoever curses last, so you both need to have a limit of 2 to avoid overwriting each other. You might be able to make it work with only +1 curse on the AG if you curse and then hold off, allowing the AG to be the last to have cursed and therefore using his limit. The Death Bishop would be no good, since there's currently no way to increase its curse limit (NA could do it if we ever get a +1 curse shield, or Umbilicus Immortalis if we ever get a +1 curse flask).
Nice, looks good! Only thing missing was quality on the helmet for a tiny bit more ES and regen. =o)
Before I got the AG I was going to anoint whispers of doom and use triad grip with CoH alongside the ring but I never got around to it.
Also, I don't know how reliable the CoH from the AG actually is and I know I don't always have my own curse up. I figured if I was throwing money at the AG items I might as well get CoH Gloves too. Both curses should give around the same amount of -cold res & the only difference being the chance to freeze from frostbite. I guess now losing the extra Spectre, Death Bishop really isn't a good choice anyway.
Just to add on to the AG part, I don't think I ever saw his health go down at all so as it turns out, regening over half his hp bar per second is pretty effective at keeping him alive.
"
Hercanic wrote:
Good to know. Would it trouble you to ask if you could record clearing a high-end map?
Unfortunately, I have not been able to test it myself (my fault; I still have not gotten back to those, such as yourself, who offered donations). My prediction for clear speed is that without true ranged minions, the build will suffer to some extent when encountering pits and cliffs.
If you want to use it then go for it!
All my gear is in a stash tab somewhere & I wasn't planning on playing PoE again until next league. I'd be happy to jump on and pass it all over to you if you wanted though.
Cool, it seems like losing a Spectre isn't too bad then.
If we go with Host Chieftain/Carnage Chieftain for charges and drop Victario's and Necro Aegis... would Queen's Decree/Escape (to make up for lost minion speed) or Femurs of the Saints (for the +2 level, so we have the 2 Chieftains and still 2 Frost Sentinels) be things to consider? Since multicraft is kinda dead, and we're not getting bonus links from affixes any longer, it seems like a unique might be the way to go.
@ everyone:
I am about finished up with the Patch Notes analysis. All I have left is to write up the differences with the new Zombie, and then summarize the overall results.
For 3.9, the same 3.8 build can be used. The main difference will be the helm and weapon, since we do not know how rare Influenced gear will be nor what the mod pool is for Conqueror rares.
(Note: Triad Grip gloves were a pretty common drop during Blight (I found 5). How rare it'll be now that Blight only shows up 10% of the time remains to be seen. These gloves may end up being either super cheap or expensive. EDIT: My mistake, apparently Triad Grip is a core unique, not a league unique, so it can thankfully drop anywhere. I was hesitant to officially promote the Triad variant for this reason, so I'm relieved to have cleared this up.)
I will be using page 234 to rewrite the guide. The original build will be preserved here.
As someone said in the Reddit patch notes thread, this is a massacre, but I think that's going to be true for *every* build.
You mention several different variants in your analysis. Is there a list of the variants people have been using? I assume, for instance, that when you say Charity Triad you're talking about the build I was using (1H with Victario's, Triad Grip with 4x green) but I'm not sure.
Edit: In particular, I think the Spectre nerf is huge and terrible. Either have to have Empower, or socket in a +2 to Minion gems helmet, or have some of source of +Level to gems.
"
WeaponizedSP wrote:
This absolutely did not get massacred.
Losing one spectre won't hurt very much at all. I played it in 3.8 and by accident I didn't notice that I never maxed my spectre's out until like a week after I was farming endgame content. When I got the last spectre out I noticed literally no difference in clear speed.
The nerf to zombies is the biggest nerf to this build in 3.9. QOL/clear speed nerf due to the minions being slower sucks too and will be annoying but not build-breaking by any means.
"
IchiMorghulis wrote:
Same here, on learning of the Spectre nerf, I fired up a t16 and ran it with 3 Spectres. I cannot tell the difference. The move speed may slow us down a little but you can make up for most of it with minion move speed on your jewelry.
"
Kirian42 wrote:
Cool, it seems like losing a Spectre isn't too bad then.
If we go with Host Chieftain/Carnage Chieftain for charges and drop Victario's and Necro Aegis... would Queen's Decree/Escape (to make up for lost minion speed) or Femurs of the Saints (for the +2 level, so we have the 2 Chieftains and still 2 Frost Sentinels) be things to consider? Since multicraft is kinda dead, and we're not getting bonus links from affixes any longer, it seems like a unique might be the way to go.
"
Is there a list of the variants people have been using?
1. Original Build: Herald of Agony, Poison from Ball Lightning, Life + Acrobatics, Charged Dash + Shield Charge OR Cyclone (or Blade Flurry) + Flame Dash. Sub-variant: Aul's Uprising (free Hatred) + Discipline w/ ES on Hit Watcher's Eye, Life + ES, Glorious Vanity + LGoSH.
2. 3.8 Build / ES Hybrid / Elder Lich: Discipline, ES on Hit Watcher's Eye w/ Ball Lightning, Life + ES, Fortify boots. Sub-variant 1: Glorious Vanity + LGoSH. Sub-variant 2: CwC Spirit Offering. Sub-variant 3: The Stampede boots. Sub-variant 4: Spectre specialist, no Phantasms, Slave Drivers/Goatman Fire-raisers/(other). Sub-variant 5: Arakaali's Fang dagger.
4. Gravelord: CwC Raging Spirits. Not efficient, just for the fun of a huge max-minion army. Arakaali's Fang, Animate Weapon + Spell Totem, etc.
"
Queen's Decree/Escape ... Femurs of the Saints
It's an option for the worst case scenario. I'm waiting to see the new mod pool and the rarity of Influenced gear.
Frenzy Charges are worth 37% more damage for our entire army. Power Charges with a Kingmaker AG in tow are another 24% more. Together they can add 70% more damage, plus the utility of 15% movement speed and another 30% chance to freeze. Losing them by dropping Victario's Charity for a 2H is something I'd like to avoid.
Chieftains are an alternative solution, but Spectres are one of our best clear options with Unending Hunger.
A 2H also consumes a 3L.
Between Decree vs. Femur:
40% minion life vs. 40% minion damage
+1 max Zom/Ske/Spec vs. +2 minion gems
100% minion movement (clear) vs. ~30% block, ~6% life regen (defense)
Going from L23 to L25 = +1 Zombie, +1 Skeleton (& +1 Vaal Warrior & +1 Vaal Mage), or +1 Spectre. So depending on what you socket into Femur, you can gain the same benefit as Decree along with ~21% more damage and life for it.
Movement speed is only super important for our Zombies. Spectres and Phantasms have range, Skeletons can have Dash and be summoned on top of targets. So the value here depends on how heavily you lean on Zombies.
@ Dashbb:
Full Post & Previous Conversation
"
Hercanic wrote:
I could have sworn I remember seeing Death Bishops and other variations had a 10sec cooldown on casting their curse, but I'm not finding it on PoeDB anymore, so I'll have to test to verify.
The nice thing about the Death Bishop, though, is his curse offers 20% chance to freeze, which is more than the 14% of a L20 Frostbite (10% @L5).
Since your Animated Guardian already curses with Elemental Weakness, you'll just be replacing each other's curses if you try to use Frostbite as well. To apply two curses from separate sources, the Animated Guardian would need a chest with "additional curse" crafted, and you'd also need a source of +1 curse if using the CoH ring. The game uses the curse limit of whoever curses last, so you both need to have a limit of 2 to avoid overwriting each other. You might be able to make it work with only +1 curse on the AG if you curse and then hold off, allowing the AG to be the last to have cursed and therefore using his limit. The Death Bishop would be no good, since there's currently no way to increase its curse limit (NA could do it if we ever get a +1 curse shield, or Umbilicus Immortalis if we ever get a +1 curse flask).
Nice, looks good! Only thing missing was quality on the helmet for a tiny bit more ES and regen. =o)
"
Dashbb wrote:
Before I got the AG I was going to anoint whispers of doom and use triad grip with CoH alongside the ring but I never got around to it.
Also, I don't know how reliable the CoH from the AG actually is and I know I don't always have my own curse up. I figured if I was throwing money at the AG items I might as well get CoH Gloves too. Both curses should give around the same amount of -cold res & the only difference being the chance to freeze from frostbite. I guess now losing the extra Spectre, Death Bishop really isn't a good choice anyway.
Just to add on to the AG part, I don't think I ever saw his health go down at all so as it turns out, regening over half his hp bar per second is pretty effective at keeping him alive.
"
Hercanic wrote:
Good to know. Would it trouble you to ask if you could record clearing a high-end map?
Unfortunately, I have not been able to test it myself (my fault; I still have not gotten back to those, such as yourself, who offered donations). My prediction for clear speed is that without true ranged minions, the build will suffer to some extent when encountering pits and cliffs.
"
Dashbb wrote:
If you want to use it then go for it!
All my gear is in a stash tab somewhere & I wasn't planning on playing PoE again until next league. I'd be happy to jump on and pass it all over to you if you wanted though.
"
I don't know how reliable the CoH from the AG actually is
Animated Guardian curses would mainly be for bosses and anything tough enough for the AG to have time to run up to and whack.
"
If you want to use [the video] then go for it!
Thanks! =oD
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All my gear is in a stash tab somewhere & I wasn't planning on playing PoE again until next league. I'd be happy to jump on and pass it all over to you if you wanted though.
Absolutely, I would love to do some comparison tests, record videos, and keep it equipped on a character for display for the guide. However, are you sure? I imagine the Maim mace will retain a nice value on Standard going forward.
Last edited by Hercanic#3982 on Dec 21, 2019, 2:28:06 PM
