Shared Mines and Sulphite Rebalance

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Fruz wrote:

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Zithorio wrote:

Why not store some kind of value for deepest delve achieved on an account and have that delve depth unlocked on each character's (new and old) unique delve, keep the best of both worlds.

If you are thinking of a mineshaft, it would probably open many "easy" paths to many new nodes by going this far, and it would automatically discover quite some area, which would make biomes discovery / area searchin easier thanks to that very deep fresh mineshaft.
Then you could make a character, check if there are any good places you want to explore on the subteranean chart, and if not ... delete and recreate one.

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Hawklaser wrote:

Casual delving while doing the story does not provide enough azurite to keep up well with the needed upgrades in order to be able to do delves around your character level. Shared Azurite upgrades bypass this, once one takes the time to grind out enough azurite to do more serious delving. For me, this hints more at the early growth rate of the light radius and darkness resistance penalties not being balanced correctly.

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Fruz wrote:

Well, I think that it was intended.
If you could have all upgrades mostly keeping up with your level at any point, there would be little meaning in choosing what to upgrade in the first place, and those upgrade would then bring very little.
You are already capped regarding the upgrades at higher level pretty much, so if you are fully capped at any point in time anyway, there would be no point to have that system in the first place.

I like the fact that when you start something, when you are a beginning ( early levels of a char, or early progression of the char in one 'field' ), you are kind of weak and need to start from pretty much nothing.
I kind of despise games that give you all power from the start or crazy shinny effects and very fast gameplay and still pretend to promote progression .... when you already have so much at level 1 ( I was very ... 'surprised' the first time a friend showed me GW years ago for example ).
So in that reguards, I would much rather have the start of it start slowly, with exploration not being easy to begin with.

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xykivo wrote:

I want each character to have its own mine progress, with no option for any type of shortcuts.

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Innomen wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

There would be barely any excitement seeing anything drop because everything would be worthless as everybody would have it already. (etc)

We don't need anything like manufactured austerity to "incentivize" us to play.


You're half right for the wrong reason. Yes GGG is constrained by the profit motive, but you're too steeped in the dogma of materialism yourself if you think we as players need such things to enjoy ourselves.

We don't. Humans are instinctive creatures with a genetic imperative to among other things, hunt and gather.

This theme is ubiquitous on par with the golden ratio across all human involved contexts. There isn't a single class of thing on earth that isn't collected by someone.

From kitkat flavors to fighter jets, from stones along the road side to news papers and literal trash. Some humans get such a huge dose of this impulse they literally try to collect everything and some even die of it.

Items in this game would be no exception.

As I already explained we're already post scarcity in poe. There are very few items that are truly unavailable. Stepping back, trade pretty much functions like an NPC vendor that sells literally everything for some amount of currency and the VAST majority of it is literally dirt cheap.

If this would hurt the game somehow, it's already done.

It's entirely possible to play some weakened version of most builds even with quest rewards and shop trash. That disproves your implication that the "economy" matters in any meaningful way beyond tricking people into believing that it matters.

You're half right as I said, but you're making the incorrect assumption that people need a profit motive to have a motive. That's simply not how being a mammal works.

However, incentives are needed, and profit motive is one of them.

All you are doing is defending your emotional and cash investment, which is why my statements threaten you because they expose lewt's lack of such value.

Post purchase rationalization.

What you are actually saying is that the game cannot survive as a business model without being very precisely shady, manipulative, and broken. And you are correct.

As for control, for myself personally, since you feel the need to inspect me as an individual, what I want is power shifted to all of society, not a monopoly.

This game is entirely derivative, and yet we apply policy designed to protect originators to it. But GGG didn't originate any of this. Pick any mechanic, or art asset, I'll find it somewhere older for you. POE is a massive remix that would have happened organically like wikipedia if it had not basically been illegal or economically punished doing so.

POE is at its root simply diablo plus final fantasy's materia system and sphere grid.

Legally we have no choice but to care because if GGG fails, the assets will not be converted to open source, they will be horded and shelved.

And if that is the argument you are really making, than make it. Don't dress it up in casino lore and Malthusian economic fiction that totally doesn't apply in a setting composed entirely of numbers.

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MasterAxe wrote:

each character should have their own set of mine layouts.

But they can if you want. I don't understand the opposition to a shared mine. If you go left or right 50 units, like literally until you can't see your old delve, that is qualitatively identical to a whole new delve.

People don't understand what random and infinite ultimately mean.

Imagine it like this: Climbing a specific tree in a forest on a planet. If you'd like to climb a different tree just move left. You don't need a whole new planet to get the exact same difference of experience.

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Fruz wrote:

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Innomen wrote:

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You are missing the whole point of arpgs.

It's all about progression.
If you can get everything easily in a couple of days, then there is no more progression, and pretty much no point to play this game as the exploration is reaaally not where it shines ( altho Delve does help a bit with that, but if you've seen all biomes/encounters and don't need any items, I'm pretty positive it's going to get boring real quick. ).

You are really missing the big picture and the whole "point" of this game and what makes it a good one (relative notion, I know) and keep resorting to using condescending nonsense by calling people that don't think like you "emotional" or "materialist".

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Innomen wrote:

Agreed, and I have a theory about your why.

So we know they are strongly motivated to look for ways to make the community need more stash tabs. That means if maps dropped properly or the mechanic didn't even need drops, we'd need the map tab less. And that means new players might do without one at all. == Lost Sale

They don't want people living in the delve, because skipping the main game also skips motivations they've carefully built in over years for spending real money.

I think they are worried what delving will do to stash tab sales hence the sulphite limiter, to act as a backstop against a super unprofitable league for them if it turns out delving doesn't translate into spending as much as mapping does.

Thoughts?

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LMTR14 wrote:

and YOU are missing an even bigger point, namely that there is NO PROGRESSION IN POE AFTER A CERTAIN POINT. xp penalty kills any progress in level, and rng-shit crafting raids you of your resources.*snip*

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Fruz wrote:

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LMTR14 wrote:

and YOU are missing an even bigger point, namely that there is NO PROGRESSION IN POE AFTER A CERTAIN POINT. xp penalty kills any progress in level, and rng-shit crafting raids you of your resources.*snip*

Your issue there is entirely different, and the solutuon can be written with two three-letters words.