Friendly reminder: Uber Lab is still boring and lack of re-entry is bullshit

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suszterpatt wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

so if 'lab is only good because it has rewards' is an argument - then it applies to every single piece of POE's content. every single one.

Well lucky for me then, because that's not the argument. The argument is "lab is only good because it has rewards only at the very end".

I'm not disputing that on the whole, running the lab is rewarding (at least in terms of loot). My contention is that by pretty much any common definition of "reward", be it loot, XP, challenge, etc, the entire labyrinth contains virtually no rewards until you get to the final Izaro fight and the treasure room. Contrast that with maps, which have a more or less uniform distribution of rewards all over, with occasional spikes and dips.

It's not the amount of rewards that's the problem, it's the distribution. Doing stuff you don't enjoy just for a reward at the end is not a game, it's a job. I don't know about you, but I already have one of those.

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suszterpatt wrote:

Yes, you can pretty much say for all content in PoE that people only play it for the reward. In an ideal world, playing the game would be its own reward, but hey, I'm fine with a game relying on loot or levelups to give a longterm incentive.

But when you concede that your gameplay won't be fun enough to play without additional rewards, then you better make damn sure that you keep giving players those rewards before they get sick of the gameplay. That's where reward distribution comes into play, and that's why the lab's disproportionate distribution is a problem. If navigating trap gauntlets and killing monsters was fun in itself, I couldn't give a rat's ass about how the loot is distributed, because we'd be getting something out of the experience at every point along the way. Similar to how you constantly get small rewards while mapping, or how you constantly get the reward of a difficult fight in Shaper/Elder.

So once again, the argument isn't "lab is bad because people play it only for the rewards", it's "lab is bad because you have to do a whole lot of unfun chores before it gives you any of those rewards".

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From Zizaran's interview with Chris, on the topic of the current 6 second DC timer:

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Chris wrote:

On average, people have much worse connections than single 1 second lag spikes. There are people out there who are getting hit by the 6 second thing just due to the internet being crappy where they are. And this happens, like, people in California when they have bad ISPs, people in Europe, a lot of German users are having... and not to mention Brazil recently, where there were problems with ISPs where they're just trying to solve them, and there's huuuuge lag spikes.

Given that you're aware that people worldwide are getting random disconnections due to no fault of their own, what's your justification for designing the lab in such a way that a DC will completely wipe your progress and eat your entry fee? Aren't you deliberately making the lab unappealing to these people?

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suszterpatt wrote:

[...] The idea has been presented before to allow re-entry, but when you do, you are put just after the last completed Izaro phase (or at the start if you haven't beaten phase 1 yet), and if you left during an Izaro fight, that fight resets. In that case, you now have to travel through 2-3 zones full of traps, likely with less trash mobs on the way to get flask charges from, and attempt the fight again from the top. Combined with other possible limitations and/or punishments on re-entry, this would make instalogging out of the lab a non-issue.

Bottom line, the lab could have been designed in such a way as to allow re-entry in case of a disconnect without room for abuse. Despite this, GGG have chosen a design that they must have known would unfairly punish a large number of people.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

It's supposed to be hard, and I can certainly tell you I felt pretty damn great the first time I completed uber lab. Heart racing, sweaty palms and soon later fist pumping. Cool shit :)

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cyclon2 wrote:

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Pangaearocks wrote:

It's supposed to be hard, and I can certainly tell you I felt pretty damn great the first time I completed uber lab. Heart racing, sweaty palms and soon later fist pumping. Cool shit :)

i feel the exact same, yet replayability is low for me personally, i think the rewards are almost there with all the chests and all, but for how large the lab actually is i feel like it stil needs a slight increase droppes. "OR" implement those lab only drops, like uniques or div cards.

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Fruz wrote:

I you think that there are no rewards on the way, before the end ... then you just don't know what you are talking about.

You could choose to rush to the end and finish it in 10 mins ( might be less time than creating this topic ) to optimize your time farming it, but you could also kill monsters on the way, explore a bit and get nice "rewards" there.

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Fruz wrote:

I you think that there are no rewards on the way, before the end ... then you just don't know what you are talking about.

You could choose to rush to the end and finish it in 10 mins ( might be less time than creating this topic ) to optimize your time farming it, but you could also kill monsters on the way, explore a bit and get nice "rewards" there.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I you think that there are no rewards on the way, before the end ... then you just don't know what you are talking about.

You could choose to rush to the end and finish it in 10 mins ( might be less time than creating this topic ) to optimize your time farming it, but you could also kill monsters on the way, explore a bit and get nice "rewards" there.

Definitely. Plenty of stuff of great value in there. I've had two Exalts drop this league. Both in the Uber Lab. Plus a whole heap of various quality gems that could sell for a decent amount, especially early in a league. And you can of course farm for good helmet enchants too. Low chance for success, but if you hit the jackpot it can be worth a great, great deal. Got at least a handful of Midnight fragments in there too. Pretty useful.