Uber lab traps

traps dont deal elemental damage so this is golden:


i also use stone brolem and Vitality on my trapper, just because regen is good.

against the floor traps, i'm pretty sure that this is all you ever need:

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I_NO wrote:

It's embarrassing if you die to traps.

What's embarrassing is that traps even exist in this game. Or at least the way they do; Mario+frogger abomination style.

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

It's embarrassing if you die to traps.

I have reached a point in my PoE experience where the true challenge of the Uber Lab for most of my builds is not the boss, it is the sheer monotony of negotiating the Lab.

As such, I actually still occasionally die to traps, due to inattention or laziness just trying to bull through a gauntlet.

And I am, indeed, embarrassed. You can't spell embarrass without Ass.

P.S. to the OP - you probably just hit a shitty lab layout. Wait until tomorrow. Occasionally the random design will throw out an especially egregious trap gauntlet that seems impossible and you cannot avoid. Or several, for that matter.

I don't get embarrassed, I get pissed. I really, really, really, really dislike the traps in the lab. I would go so far as to say I literally hate them. Meaning I would kill them if I met them in real life and I was adequately armed. But, I also realize that they aren't going anywhere so I just cuss them and move on.

What I really dislike about the lab is the fact that full character progression is gated behind something that so many players genuinely dislike, or even hate, and it's so non-ARPG. I think having the loot and enchants and all of that behind uber lab is pretty cool and that folks that like the lab can get those rewards that way. But for those of us with no desire for the other rewards we should have a less obnoxious way of getting our ascendancy points. I mean, if I had a way to get ascendancy points that actually blocked me from ever entering the lab I would jump at it. I have no desire to run the lab for any reward whatsoever so give me an alternative and block me from the other rewards and I'm totally fine with that.

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Phaeded wrote:

and it's so non-ARPG.

It's not.
It literally isn't, literally, period.


It is in our case, an element of the game that is pushing the player to improve his build, and he can (cwdt+ic being the most obvious of the things here, since he is not using endurance charges), which is a positive thing actually.

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Fruz wrote:

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Phaeded wrote:

and it's so non-ARPG.

It literally isn't, literally, period.

Like many genre based discussions I think that is, literally, a matter of opinion. I happen to completely disagree with you, as do a lot of other veteran ARPG players. The Frogger game style hasn't been part of the ARPG's that I have enjoyed. Plenty of SNES platformers have them though. I don't play those for the same reason. I find trap dodging annoying, and so do many, many, many other players. This latter fact is indisputable. There are a lot of players that wish they never had to enter the lab at all and many of them dislike it specifically because of the annoying traps.

Anyway, it's a pointless discussion so I'm not sure why I bothered commiserating with the OP. The lab isn't going anywhere and it isn't going to change so those of us, however many we be, that dislike it will just have to suck it up and learn to live with it or go play something else. Since I'm still waiting for the next Diablo II replacement (I guess I should start calling it a POE replacement at this point) I just grit my teeth and do my four runs per character and occasionally bitch about it on the forums. I haven't publicly complained about the lab in at least 3 or 4 leagues I think, so please cut me some slack, Fruz. ;)

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Fruz wrote:

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Phaeded wrote:

and it's so non-ARPG.

It's not.
It literally isn't, literally, period.

Complete and utter horseshit.

Character progression in *RPGs

First, *RPGs tend to focus on creating lore that has at least some patina of believability in the context in which it is set, even if some of it is essentially tongue-in-cheek. On a related point, character progression in RPGs is usually tied to doing more of whatever you're doing to get better at ... whatever you're doing. Teach more to become a better teacher, and all that. You know, like real life.

Not lab, though. It's a badly put together mash-up of the Mad Wizard's Tower (Seek power within!) and Trial by Combat (Become the next ruler!). All characters follow exactly the same generic process to define themselves. No "kill" missions for you, Mister Assassin. No "commune with nature" or "find some rare ingredient and make a flask" stuff for Ms. Pathfinder. No trial by extended combat for the duelist, no "master this minion" stuff for the witch, etc.

Instead of having a process that makes sense to define one's characters, in POE to ascend you beat some skeletal asshole up to twelve times per character with a green goddess apparently spending eternity riding on his shoulders for god only knows why, guarding access to an altar that gives a far bigger upgrade to all of dozens of character class choices (think of ascendant combos) than pantheon, which requires defeating up to dozens of gods (to fully fill out).

You ascend four times for each character for reasons that make no sense in the current iteration of the game other than, hey, four times sounds good.

On that note, if you already beat Izaro's skeletal ass (is that even a thing?) in an earlier lab, then why is lab in the same shape as before in later versions, except more annoying, and why is Izaro back to being Izaro, only souped up to be stronger the next time around? What lore makes that make sense?

Lore for lab makes zero sense. None. Zip. Nada. Which, by the way, automatically makes it non-ARPG.


Trap Gauntlets

ARPGs are focused on killing mobs, loot, and character progression. Trap gauntlets as a gate to defining your character not only makes zero sense in terms of lore in POE, it's also not a key feature of any other ARPG on the market.

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Phaeded wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Phaeded wrote:

and it's so non-ARPG.

It literally isn't, literally, period.

Like many genre based discussions I think that is, literally, a matter of opinion.

If we take the literal definition of what an Action Role Playing Game is, then it isn't really.
Which is why I specified literal in our case.


And if we start going with opinion .... it might not fit everybody's expectations about this game, as it can't.
And many people do dislike it for several reason, that's for sure.
I personally like them as they "spice up" the content in my opinion, but this is only my opinion of course.

There are many reasons why the frogger comparison is pointless, but I am not going to enumerate them here, it's not the point. There are enough lab-thread full of crap and people antagonizing eachother about that.


But I wanted to point out that in our case, the OP could wonder how he could improve his character from this, make his character better. I wish he did that instead of coming here directly, but nobody is perfect.
I think that his recent character is just weaker against traps that the previous ones.

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Fruz wrote:

If we take the literal definition of what an Action Role Playing Game is, then it isn't really.
Which is why I specified literal in our case.


And if we start going with opinion .... it might not fit everybody's expectations about this game, as it can't.
And many people do dislike it for several reason, that's for sure.
I personally like them as they "spice up" the content in my opinion, but this is only my opinion of course.

There are many reasons why the frogger comparison is pointless, but I am not going to enumerate them here, it's not the point. There are enough lab-thread full of crap and people antagonizing eachother about that.


But I wanted to point out that in our case, the OP could wonder how he could improve his character from this, make his character better. I wish he did that instead of coming here directly, but nobody is perfect.
I think that his recent character is just weaker against traps that the previous ones.

Frogger is a just a convenient and well-known danger avoidance and timing based game. The traps in the lab do bear a lot of similarity so I'm not sure why you think it's so inappropriate as a reference. Sure, there aren't any logs or buses to dodge but there are sliding saws in the floor, alternating spike traps, and spinning blades that have to be avoided mostly by timing your movement. Seems very apropos to me. Again, opinion.

I would love to read the authoritative definition you refer to that states that ARPG conclusively includes trap dodging. Not really sure I've run across any source that I would consider authoritative on the content of a specific gaming genre but clearly you have found something so I'd like to read about it. Do you have a link? This isn't me being snarky. I'll gladly stop using the "non-ARPG" argument when someone conclusively shows me or convinces me that I'm wrong. At the moment I still think it's a matter of opinion. Your opinion is that ARPG incluces lab traps and mine is that it does not. Seems like an impasse but, again, I'm open to having my mind changed.

Or, maybe there isn't an authoritative opinion on the full term ARPG. Perhaps you're just suggesting we break down the words in APRG as you have done and take each of those literally? In that case I expect we'll get some giant ape throwing barrels at us as we climb ladders in some future league since hey, that is a "G"ame too. Maybe we can have a mini-game as part of the lab where you have to complete a candy crush level to open the door to Izaro. Wouldn't that be fun? Each of those is as much a part of a "standard" ARPG as the lab traps are. IMO, of course. :)

But, as you said, there is enough of this back and forth in a thousand other forum posts... well, at least over 300 other forum posts. You are also correct that I have somewhat derailed the topic and I'll stop at this point.

So OP, in line with the other lab lovers out there my advice to you is: GET GUD.

:) LOL

Game developer: "we based our trap design on popular games from our childhood. For example this gauntlet is named the frogger gauntlet."

Fruz: "Comparing traps to frogger is pointless"

??????