Running Uber Lab - Impression and Feedback

Hello fellow community members,

I'd like to share with you today my personal impression of running some uber labs with a goal in mind. Whilst Uber Lab provides a lot of trade-able loot and some nifty enchants that can net you a lot of currency, I do not run it for profit. I usually just do 1 lab per character and stop even picking up the keys to uber lab. I don't mind it and I love that some people enjoy it and make a profit out of it. In general I've seen these 2 types of approach to it - just do it for the Ascendancy and leave it, or run it for profit early in the league or all league long. I never thought about the helm enchants as something build enabling, just as dps increase or small AOE - like quality of life stuff if you have the few spare exalts.
This league with the new boss out I actually got excited to push my normal gameplay and even consider going for a lvl100. I started with SST and liked it a lot. Got to t16s with it. Then I respeced that char to Tornado shot windripper to try farming for more currency since I'm extremely unlucky on avarage with RNG in the game. (Example is I've spend over 4k fusings on the windripper and still haven't 6 linked it) and I made a RF Jugg for bossing since I'm not well versed in bosses and need something tough to get used to the mechanics of the fights. Its the first league I took shaper down and actually did 2/4 completely deathless Uber Elders. The thing is: I need TS helm enchant for secondary proj on a specific helm so I started doing lab runs. The market price for that specific situation is 80ex. Ofc I can't afford that since I don't play the market all day and don't play 16+ hours a day with a party. I play solo for a few hours on the weekdays and maybe a bit more on the weekends when I'm free. So the only thing I can do is just run lab and try to progress my char that way. So I started doing that.
I bought keys and used all mine I had lying around and started going in trials again to collect more. I do Prophecies and buy Twice Enchanteds. I do all the darkshrines for possible extra helm enchants and I continue to enchant the helm. Since I want a specific enchant I feel I have this impossible task ahead of me. And I feel lucky still that its not 1 crafted specific helm I want to enchant like it would be on the RF char, its a unique that I can buy for 50c each and maybe sell 1 in 40 enchants for a few exalts. If I want to (for example) enchant the crafted horror helm for my RF character with RF damage - it seems kind of pointless to try. I'd have to reroll sellable enchants, or just completely miss them since they're on the wrong helm. You can't transfer the helm enchant, you can't control what rolls on it and the whole process is boring. So, I'm stuck and I don't see a reasonable way out. I can't just make 80 ex. I can't just farm it out. And considering I'd generally like to enchant my boots as well - that's just crazy.
And let me explain why Lab is boring to run: You are either built so traps do nothing to you, or you can easily die to them. On one hand its bad cause you ignore everything and are just running with 0 interaction until you get to izaro or argus. And you can't reasonably farm it on a char that's not built to survive traps forever cause you just waste a ton of time every time you die, since you just start over. And while its true that enchants are mostly just dps or area increases, there's some extreme quality of life or just enablers - getting 40% duration or more projectiles can change a skill completely. And it can enable you to do other content. And for builds that need really specific helms or boots, you can never do a stable progression with conjunction with lab, because the RNG will murder your whole league. I can't do 1500 uber lab runs in the league time to just enchant 1 piece of gear for 1 character and call it - good game. Especially since Lab is boring and annoying. The whole instance is designed to force you to prepare for specific things, which ofc you build to bruteforce endure, because interacting with them is impossible.
And yes, I can continue to ignore Lab's existence and do normal gameplay, sure. Just as I and many more ignore other parts of the game such as the current league mechanic - since its so complicated and counterintuitive. But is that really the way to go?

Just the economic gap between people can get insane which already locks a big part of the game for many players and makes some things unachievable. And the ways that people make currency involve not the game but software and sites outside of the game. + Requires years of experience. I've been around for a while and can see how things are evolving and my general impression is that the "top 1%" are affecting the way GGG balances some things in the game, but the result of that way of thinking is that they lock parts of the game completely for a lot of players.
I understand that there's extreme people who will run bosses until a specific drop is so available on the market that its price is relatively 1c, which kind of makes the item w/e, but at the same time starting prices for items for 100ex+ when that type of currency is not achievable for most players that play a decent time all league... and that for only 1 item.... And we're not talking about mirror worthy gear here. Let the rich keep their mirrors, thats fine. I'm not complaining that someone else is richer than me, I'd like to address the impossibility to chase some specific items in the game, unless you rely on external software and sites, and don't actually play the game.

It's a shame the OP is so hard to read because this is actually a thoughtful thread.

Many would be likely to agree that locking so much potentially build-enabling power behind the kind of boring and annoyingly drawn out gaming experience lab provides (traps are irrelevant or potentially very dangerous, depending on build) and that thick a layer of RNG isn't necessarily good for game balance.

To the OP: You might want to consider a bit of editing to make your paragraphs more readable. A lot will just scan the OP, go "text walls = tl;dr", and move on with their day.

Thanks for the feedback, I realize I started with the idea, but I didn't really format it a lot. Plus, there's some chain of thought that can be compressed a bit. I'll try to review after work.

Thanks a lot.

Lab hater detected.
Wall of text
lul

Lab is god. Git gud

-------

I like lab
You dont like lab

Both options are fine.
Gating power behind things you may not like is normal.
I hate lvling, still i have to spend 10-15h per character to get into maps (yes yes i know "bla bla bla you can get to maps in 4h". Problem is i hate acts so hard i very often take breaks making whole process longer as i cant stand boring missions anymore)

Also same goes for other things. If i want kaoms rings i must play stupid prophecy system or buy it to make it faster. If i want X stats on gear i can pray to RNG Gods or buy it.
In the end just to enjoy my uber lab (ruined a lot because of lab haters) i have to deal with many boring things i hate.

"

khalithas wrote:

...

Nice post although I'm afraid most people won't read it. There are already folks admitting they didn't read it and then attacking you.

Yes, lab is annoying and boring content. I've considered making a lab runner in standard just to try for a helm enchant. As my supply of offerings keeps growing it gets more tempting. I haven't done it because the thought of going through the boring content turns me off.

enchants.. the problem is enchants - not the lab

enchants that 'turn the build around' (or rather - make it deal 60% more damage instead of baseline 40% increased other enchants do) are STUPID and were a COLOSSAL MISTAKE made by ggg

you say 80ex for a helmet/enchant combo

you know what makes this price?

a) terrible game balance. tornado shot is THE BEST arrow skill in the game -> high demand
b) balance is homogenized in general -> people roll only generic helmets (stark/devotos/white bases). -> low supply of non-generic items

in the end you are asked 80ex not because helmet/enchant is highly sought after but because youve decided to pick a helmet noone uses thus noone enchants

solution?

1) REMOVE idiotic strong enchants, bring them down. this applies to ALL '+projectiles' because these are outright 50%+ MORE multipliers (compared to generic 40% increased most of the skills get)
2) fix skills so more skills are played so more enchant combos 'stick' and are not auto-rerolled. when one skill is a clear winnder, then all other skill enchants are auto-reroll
3) convince people that some options are not auto-wins. this requires a SERIOUS balancing pass

but worry not, nothing will happen

btw - you CAN play your build without an enchant. but it will be simply 50% worse than top version. it is still playable but simply worse. i know it hurts, but thats the way it is

again, problem you have is much deeper than just 'lab' - this is just the vehicle to deliver the real problem to you

"

sidtherat wrote:

enchants.. the problem is enchants - not the lab
...
again, problem you have is much deeper than just 'lab' - this is just the vehicle to deliver the real problem to you

While it's true that balance is a part of the problem, if labyrinth was fun content like the rest of PoE then it would be a slightly less annoying problem.

I would have an impression if I was actually allowed to run it.

@karoollll2534 I don't hate lab and I don't want to take it away from people. I'm just sharing my experience in the goal progression. You can easily say that I don't like trading, which is also both true and untrue. I don't enjoy it but I wouldn't rather take it away from people.

@sidtherat most of the time its about damage, sometimes its more quality of life - like having a higher AOE so you can clear more comfortably. Sometimes its build enabling - like the Storm Call reduced duration enchant. In any case, even if its just about damage - it gives people higher map tier possibilities. I understand why its so expensive and that the use-case is narrow as well as the skill is popular, I don't mind it being 80ex (I'm sure that if I get it, the price will drop to 5-10ex immediately, cause im just lucky like that) - I just want to have a real chance to get it in 3 months without doing Lab 24/7. And I don't think they will go away - good or bad as an idea.

And yes, its a wall of text. I'll do better in the future. Or at least try to. I don't mind people like karoollll2534 since I can see clearly he has no idea what I'm even saying, he's just shitposting.

if the problem are lab enchants well yes they are a problem right now, but not lab difficulty.

i already proposed this somewhere but i'll repeat:
allow the enchantment thing to make you choose between (at least) 3 different enchantment.
then you can make a prophecy or darkshine where you can pick between 5 enchantments.

i know it won't solve problems but it's a system that pairs the whole randomness of enchantments with a tiny bit of choice.