Raider: https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Raider
I will open PoB when I have time to confirm the differences but at what point is rapid assault + avatar of the chase not better than way of the poacher + avatar of the slaughter? Is my below math correct (i left cast speed out of totals), and what do you guys usually take?
Frenzy Charge (with Avatar of Slaughter increases): 7% inc att speed, 7% inc cast speed, 7% att damage, 2% move speed
Way of the Poacher: +10% att speed
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Onslaught: 20% increased attack speed, cast speed, and movement speed
Rapid Assault: 20% att damage
Avatar of the Chase: 100% increased Onslaught Effect, 20% increased Attack Damage during Onslaught, 25% more chance to Evade Melee Attacks during Onslaught, 25% more chance to Evade Projectile Attacks during Onslaught
Onslaught Path Total:
- 40% att speed
- 40% att damage
- 40% move speed
- 25% melee evade
- 25% projectile evade
5 Frenzy Charge Avatar of the Slaughter Path:
- 45% att speed
- 35% att damage
- 10% movement speed
Last bumped on Mar 7, 2018, 4:37:10 PM
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Posted byFuror_Deion Mar 6, 2018, 2:52:35 PM
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I get what you're saying but you kind of have to rephrase the question entirely because no one picks Raider and thinks "yea, I'm going to skip Avatar of the Slaughter entirely." Raider is the frenzy generation ascendancy, the Avatar of the Chase gives the ability to generate onslaught against bosses now so we will see more and more people go Slaughter + Chase instead of Veil. It was always a decisions between these 2 - Slaughter was never up for consideration because it's too important.
Also keep in mind that the bare minimum for Frenzy charges is going to be 7, not 5. Throw in darkray vectors and now you have 8, throw in a corrupted pair with +1 frenzys and now you have 9. It can grow out of control rather quickly. Also keep in mind that Frenzy charges just straight up give you +4% damage per charge, something you won't have if you dont have a way to build these charges in the first place.
So yes, Avatar of the Chase gives you nice bonuses, but it will always be a decision between Chase and Veil, not Slaughter.
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Posted byxRustySpoonon Mar 6, 2018, 3:12:08 PM
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I get what you're saying but you kind of have to rephrase the question entirely because no one picks Raider and thinks "yea, I'm going to skip Avatar of the Slaughter entirely." Raider is the frenzy generation ascendancy, the Avatar of the Chase gives the ability to generate onslaught against bosses now so we will see more and more people go Slaughter + Chase instead of Veil. It was always a decisions between these 2 - Slaughter was never up for consideration because it's too important.
Also keep in mind that the bare minimum for Frenzy charges is going to be 7, not 5. Throw in darkray vectors and now you have 8, throw in a corrupted pair with +1 frenzys and now you have 9. It can grow out of control rather quickly. Also keep in mind that Frenzy charges just straight up give you +4% damage per charge, something you won't have if you dont have a way to build these charges in the first place.
So yes, Avatar of the Chase gives you nice bonuses, but it will always be a decision between Chase and Veil, not Slaughter.
This is a perspective I did not really consider, thank you for sharing. I am brand new to Ranger as of this season.
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Posted byFuror_Deion Mar 6, 2018, 3:29:28 PM
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I get what you're saying but you kind of have to rephrase the question entirely because no one picks Raider and thinks "yea, I'm going to skip Avatar of the Slaughter entirely." Raider is the frenzy generation ascendancy, the Avatar of the Chase gives the ability to generate onslaught against bosses now so we will see more and more people go Slaughter + Chase instead of Veil. It was always a decisions between these 2 - Slaughter was never up for consideration because it's too important.
Also keep in mind that the bare minimum for Frenzy charges is going to be 7, not 5. Throw in darkray vectors and now you have 8, throw in a corrupted pair with +1 frenzys and now you have 9. It can grow out of control rather quickly. Also keep in mind that Frenzy charges just straight up give you +4% damage per charge, something you won't have if you dont have a way to build these charges in the first place.
So yes, Avatar of the Chase gives you nice bonuses, but it will always be a decision between Chase and Veil, not Slaughter.
It is important to say that it is 4% MORE damage per Frenzy charge, so 8 frenzy charges gives you 32% more damage which is very, very good.
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Posted byFAMOon Mar 6, 2018, 5:50:02 PM
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I get what you're saying but you kind of have to rephrase the question entirely because no one picks Raider and thinks "yea, I'm going to skip Avatar of the Slaughter entirely." Raider is the frenzy generation ascendancy, the Avatar of the Chase gives the ability to generate onslaught against bosses now so we will see more and more people go Slaughter + Chase instead of Veil. It was always a decisions between these 2 - Slaughter was never up for consideration because it's too important.
Also keep in mind that the bare minimum for Frenzy charges is going to be 7, not 5. Throw in darkray vectors and now you have 8, throw in a corrupted pair with +1 frenzys and now you have 9. It can grow out of control rather quickly. Also keep in mind that Frenzy charges just straight up give you +4% damage per charge, something you won't have if you dont have a way to build these charges in the first place.
So yes, Avatar of the Chase gives you nice bonuses, but it will always be a decision between Chase and Veil, not Slaughter.
It is important to say that it is 4% MORE damage per Frenzy charge, so 8 frenzy charges gives you 32% more damage which is very, very good.
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Posted byFAMOon Mar 6, 2018, 5:55:50 PM
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The onslaught path gives:
- 40% increased attack speed
- 40% increased movement speed
- 40% increased attack damage
- 25% more chance to evade melee and projectile attacks
The frenzy path gives (assuming n=6 or n=9 frenzy charges):
- 42% - 63% increased attack speed (3% per charge from tree and 4% per charge from the charge itself)
- 24% - 36% increased cast speed (4% per charge from charge)
- 12% - 18% increased movement speed (2% per charge from tree)
- 18% - 27% increased attack damage (3% per charge from tree)
- 24% - 36% MORE damage (4% per charge from charge)
The first and last ones are those that make frenzy path do much more damage than onslaught path.
Account inactive since Tencent majority share acquisition.
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Posted byzagibuon Mar 7, 2018, 5:15:13 AM
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The onslaught path gives:
- 40% increased attack speed
- 40% increased movement speed
- 40% increased attack damage
- 25% more chance to evade melee and projectile attacks
The frenzy path gives (assuming n=6 or n=9 frenzy charges):
- 42% - 63% increased attack speed (3% per charge from tree and 4% per charge from the charge itself)
- 24% - 36% increased cast speed (4% per charge from charge)
- 12% - 18% increased movement speed (2% per charge from tree)
- 18% - 27% increased attack damage (3% per charge from tree)
- 24% - 36% MORE damage (4% per charge from charge)
The first and last ones are those that make frenzy path do much more damage than onslaught path.
thank you very much for the math!
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Posted byFuror_Deion Mar 7, 2018, 11:27:24 AM
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Keep in mind, certain items offer added benefits for using frenzy charges:
Darkray vectors give +5% movement speed and +2% dodge chance per frenzy charge for example.
I make dumb builds, therefore I am.
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Posted byFCK42on Mar 7, 2018, 1:24:44 PM
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The onslaught path gives:
- 40% increased attack speed
- 40% increased movement speed
- 40% increased attack damage
- 25% more chance to evade melee and projectile attacks
The frenzy path gives (assuming n=6 or n=9 frenzy charges):
- 42% - 63% 18%-27% increased attack speed (3% per charge from tree and 4% per charge from the charge itself)
- 24% - 36% increased cast speed (4% per charge from charge)
- 12% - 18% increased movement speed (2% per charge from tree) + 10% for first node
- 18% - 27% increased attack damage (3% per charge from tree)
- 24% - 36% 4% MORE damage (4% per charge from charge) from the +1 charge
The first and last ones are those that make frenzy path do much more damage than onslaught path.
These are the benefits from the Ascendancy. The other stuff is what everyone gets with frenzy charges. Frenzy path does make it easier to maintain frenzy charges against bosses.
Last edited by FarmerTed on Mar 7, 2018, 2:26:21 PM
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Posted byFarmerTedon Mar 7, 2018, 2:16:27 PM
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You can't discount the fact that Raider gets frenzies basically for free, though. Every other class needs to do Something Hinky to get/keep frenzies, especially against bosses. There's no easy item-based Frenzy generation save Blood Dance, and nobody (except me >_>...) likes those. They don't help during boss fights, either. Raider is swag these days because it gets to build and keep Frenzies for free, which is a huge deal and lets people get away with no Blood Rage, no weird Frenzy-the-skill boss links, or dealing with Poacher's Mark shenanery.
Other classes can get Frenzy charges, yeah. Raider breathes Frenzy charges though, and that's why Slaughter is non-optional.
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Posted by1453Ron Mar 7, 2018, 2:42:21 PM
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