Abyss League Statistics

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Drasius_Rift wrote:

In no surprise to anyone, Slayer OP, Gladiator has block and bleedsplosion and Champion cries in the corner.


Almost identical breakdown to duelist, Raider frenzy charge generation on bosses is stronk, Pathfinder flasks still good and Deadeye is the redheaded stepchild.


The biggest blowout of the lot, Inq is nervously eying the nerfhammer. Guardian has Auras and LLRF while Heirophant has ... frostbolt totems as a leage starter I guess?


Same as Templar, Necro wins in a landslide. The bonus from Mistress of Sacrifice is just too huge to ignore, making her a better option for survivability or casting while also being the summoning class while summoning is stong as well as still being top tier as a suport option. Elementalist is just a bad Inquisitor most of the time 'cause there's almost no reason not to go crit with spells and Occultist is heavily specialised into ES (which is weak) and chaos ED/Contagion which, while good, is only 1 build among many.

That goes to show how unbalanced the Ascendancies are.

GGG, I hope you see this. And instead of nerfing like you always do, why not buff the less-than-spectacular Ascendanies and their associated build skills?

I don't really think an ARPG like PoE is concerned with "Balance". Balance is something that matters in direct (or indirect) player competition. Sure, there's a high representation of Slayer in this league - was that the same as the previous league? No. Berserker had the highest representation. Elementalist too was highly played and leagues before that it was Pathfinder....

People want to come back to something NEW. We want new leagues to inject fresh gameplay - That requires old favorites to be 'retired' and something to take their place (in the form of items, ascendancies, passives and skills).

The 'meta' will ALWAYS be lopsided. Big streamers and places like Reddit will reduce everything down to the most powerful/efficient and the brainless herd will follow. If you want more variety then you're going to have to adopt a playstyle like Mathil; Make your own builds with off-meta classes/items and go out and clear all the content with it.

If you just follow what everyone else is doing then yes, there will be no diversity in your gameplay experience; That however is not GGG's fault or responsibility to correct. You're completely capable of making a character that few other are playing. Clearing content is a pass/fail; if you can clear it, what does it matter if another ascendancy has a higher theoretical spreadsheet?

I've just come back to the game after something like a 2 year leave. Maybe a month or so before Abyss league came out.

IDK what the hell is going on, but I know for sure the drop rate on many of the maps is almost non-exsistant. I still have many white and yellow maps I can't seem to get to drop no matter what I do. I can do the maps around them multiple times, but even with Vaaling those maps, even with chiseling those maps (a huge no-no according to many players), even trying to use sextants around them. There are still huge gaps in all four corners of my Atlas. Imo, if we're to use sextants to make these maps have 100%+ quantity/quality to get the stupid maps to drop?!?!... then sextants need to drop more like chance orbs, and not divines.

I am loving this Abyss league for all the content each map can potentially hold.So don't get me wrong here. Abyss cracks, breaches, trial runs, Zana showing up here and there. It all extends the map runs to make them more long lasting and entertaining. But for the love of RNjesus, ya gotta make some adjustments to the drop rates, and a few other things, so that it won't take me 4 months (so the league ends before i get there) and X amount of character tries to get to the end content. As it stands I know I won't be able to reach the higher tier red maps this league. If the drop rates on maps were similar to standard league before Abyss came out? I'd already be staring at T14 + maps. Sadly, some of us don't have the playtime and expertise to run thru the content in a month and drop the game again till next league.(AKA streamers who live off the game)

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Shinigami17 wrote:

Not sure, but seems that you should do something with Scion.

To be honest I think Ascendant is in a good spot right now, in the past Scion has been underused or overused, now it has a good percentage.

What GGG should take away from this is that they need to buff any ascendancy under 7% used.

They also need to address the problem with Energy shield that they created, resulting in classes near life nodes being more bloated then they would otherwise be.

The game is in a very sad state, they need to get new "experts" to actually balance the game.
At the very least remove the rng to content, not once this league did i ever find the extra abyss bosses.

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nskLantash wrote:

The map-running statistics are probably skewed, because no shaped maps are mentioned. Shaped Vault must surely be run as much\more than a normal Valut, and probably should hve the top spot in red map stats.

Same with Strand and Burial Chambers, they should likely be in the yellow map statistics, as people shape them.

Which, as i see it, highlights two major things.
1) Sextants op, especially on certain maps. Even a fully-sextanted strand, let alone vault, will bring you heaps more profit than running any "normal" map, or even a normally-sextanted (like 2-3 sextants) map.

2) Locking the most valuable divination cards in certain maps is op. While both vault and spider-forest have okay layouts, the main reason people are running them are cards, and for many the fact that cards drop only there is a good reason to just skip the rest of the Atlas altogether.

Not sure about the reasoning for new white\yellow maps missing, but for red maps, well, A) the droprate of maps above t12 has been extremely low, according to many people, and B) a lot of these maps have long boss fights with unskippable invincibility phases. Which would've been fine if map bosses were rewarding in any way, shape or form, but they aren't.

Just tie the boss drops to monsters remaining, please. So that the full-clear of a map also provided a massive quantity+rarity increase from a boss.
That'd make killing them worth it without turning maps into "find a boss, kill a boss, leave map" thing.

I totally agree on both your statements. The way the atlas works right now in 3.1, with some maps close to each other (like strand, toxic sewer, burial chamber, vault) and some maps that just got one or two maps close (like tropical island, shore), people will most likely shape the maps that got the most maps around them, thanks to the way sextants works on maps. Would be much better (sure, a nerf, but better) if you could only use 1 sextant on each map, aka the map you sextant, and instead of 3 uses the sextant can have 5 uses. In that way, you make more diversity on the atlas and let people do what they please to do without only thinking about what gives you the most currency. And when I say one sextant per map, that also means that maps around the map you sextant, won't work. So If you sextant a shaped strand map, desert map and Iceberg map, the only sextant that will procc is the one you used on your shaped strand map, and the others will be ignored.

I do also notice that a lot of people only farm card maps (vault, burial, spider forest, atoll, channel), not most likely because the layout and boss is easy, but because they drop valuable cards. We have 157 maps on the atlas right now, more than ever before with the release of 30? new maps in 3.1. The way GGG has developed the atlas with sextants, sextant blocking and some maps that drops extremely valuable cards, most people tend to skip or not care about 99% of the end game. They are not forced to do this of course, but good luck getting a headhunter within the first 3-5 days without farming vault or spider forest to max and skip the rest. "Normal" players watch people on twitch that only cares about speed farming and currency farming, and that's doing his och her atlas 100% to max the currency profit. It's bad for the game itself that the end-game is so fragile (with how the sextants works and what maps that drops good loot, 99% of the maps won't drop anything at all). This is why maps like vault, spider forest, burial are all on top of their tier.

I would like a nerf in sextants, and a drop nerf of cards in card maps. With nerfing sextants (like my example), the cards will drop less and the value of just doing 1 map over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (you get the point) will decrease, and the end-game will get more diversity. It's a win win for everybody (kinda), except for the people that want PoE to be easy Diablo III where you get everything maxed within the first week. Do we want PoE to be like that? I doubt many people will say yes.

If you ask me, we have three groups here that wants three different things. In one corner, we have the currency farmers. They only focus on getting wealth, and thereby only doing the things in the game that gives them the most profit. The statistics don't lie, many people only think about this, and get the top gear within the first week of the league. That's why uber lab (within the first weeks), vault, zana breach, spider forest and so on are heavily overrepresented in what people play.

In the other corner, we have people who want to see more diversity on the atlas, and that thinks that the Game is too easy in the state it is now. Most people skip bosses (I think) because its not rewarding enough but they don't want to farm just a few maps when we have 157 maps we can do. People who do this gets a heavy blow from GGG in form of alot less of currency and people that plays the game like this, has to play so much more to get the same wealth as people who are card farmers. For example, I play at least 8 hours a day and I got my headhunter belt after around 1.5 months only farming random maps with no sextants. Meanwhile, people in the guild got a headhunter belt after 4-5 days with full sextanted vault maps.

And then, the third part. What does GGG really want? Do they want gear to be easy, or hard to get? To farm cards to get loot is the easy way to get gear, aka only do 1% of the end-game content. People who do this method wants the game to be easy, because they don't do end-game bosses or cares about hard maps with "wrong" layout, pack size and "not enough sextants". People who do the other way around, that can do 100% of the end-game atlas, gets so much harder to get currency in the game.

So it's basicly a question of what GGG wants PoE to be, easy - or hard? Right now it looks like they want the game to be easy for the majority of the playerbase. I don't like that. If I wanted a game where I could get maxed out gear within the first week, I would just play D3. I want PoE to be something else, something more, something better.

1st and the most important : PoE SHOULD NEVER BE BALANCED ! NEVER !

What's the point of having the most weird and expensive caster build out there, when a child with none-to-some skills just pilling random items from the ground is building almost equal to your hack and slash kind of character ?!
Are You guys stupid or what ?!

I would like to see top HP builds over 18k HP and top ES builds over 40k ES ( 1 HP = 3 ES ).
I would like to see builds with actual tooltip 1.000.000 damage or so.
I would like to see builds which is 1 hitting the final boss ( whoever it is at some point ).

Balancing is for screaming out fake brains on twitch.
Balancing is not making the game better. It is making it worse in practically every aspect.


2nd postulate : BASE ITEMS STATS SHOULD NEVER BE NERFED !

You wanna kill the market - OK, but killing entirely the fun and years of time and money investments into top tier equipment is just something else. You are laughing at the playerbase.
Only an insane person would like the result, or peoples which is just envy that they could never reach the state of "that guy".
This is Uber morronic, and none sane developer would do it just "4 teh lulz".


3rd postulate : STANDARD is most important, the leagues is just a failed game attempt, or alpha at the best.

STOP PROPAGATING THEM AS "SOMETHING".

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Abyssal Depths

most of the people i know only enter to see if a lich. is not , they leave map . if that count as a run area is ok, otherwise make some noise to me cause they aren't rewarding (except high level ones)

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muzein wrote:

I don't really think an ARPG like PoE is concerned with "Balance". Balance is something that matters in direct (or indirect) player competition. Sure, there's a high representation of Slayer in this league - was that the same as the previous league? No. Berserker had the highest representation. Elementalist too was highly played and leagues before that it was Pathfinder....

People want to come back to something NEW. We want new leagues to inject fresh gameplay - That requires old favorites to be 'retired' and something to take their place (in the form of items, ascendancies, passives and skills).

The 'meta' will ALWAYS be lopsided. Big streamers and places like Reddit will reduce everything down to the most powerful/efficient and the brainless herd will follow. If you want more variety then you're going to have to adopt a playstyle like Mathil; Make your own builds with off-meta classes/items and go out and clear all the content with it.

If you just follow what everyone else is doing then yes, there will be no diversity in your gameplay experience; That however is not GGG's fault or responsibility to correct. You're completely capable of making a character that few other are playing. Clearing content is a pass/fail; if you can clear it, what does it matter if another ascendancy has a higher theoretical spreadsheet?

There's truth to that, at least to an extent. And that extent is only due to the status quo. Meta reigns, as both you and I recognize, and whatever the new builds the streamers are ranting about are the ones that get played by the masses. I always try to avoid meta and just play whatever looks interesting to me in the next league.

There is a reason behind this, and there's certainly some 'waging the dog' every league. But none of that is ever justified by claiming that's just the way things are. ARPGs can do better, and despite PoE's divergence from the ARPG norm of other titles, it's still not enough to break out of its paradigm. Why have this rinse and repeat of meta & nerf? GGG can do better, much better, if they wanted to do so.

I think you are misunderstanding what is meant by "balance". This doesn't mean everything needs to be the same in terms of damage/feel/etc. For example, the saboteur ascendancy needs some reworking especially for miners but that doesn't mean it needs to be on par with the top ascendancy class atm. The worry is that there are skills/ascendancies/items/etc. that are not just separating from the pack but are so good that they are really the "only" choice for certain builds. If the gap between the top tier and everything else is so great that there really is no reason to try anything else then there is a problem.

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SonicPLD2 wrote:

1st and the most important : PoE SHOULD NEVER BE BALANCED ! NEVER !

What's the point of having the most weird and expensive caster build out there, when a child with none-to-some skills just pilling random items from the ground is building almost equal to your hack and slash kind of character ?!
Are You guys stupid or what ?!

I would like to see top HP builds over 18k HP and top ES builds over 40k ES ( 1 HP = 3 ES ).
I would like to see builds with actual tooltip 1.000.000 damage or so.
I would like to see builds which is 1 hitting the final boss ( whoever it is at some point ).

Balancing is for screaming out fake brains on twitch.
Balancing is not making the game better. It is making it worse in practically every aspect.


2nd postulate : BASE ITEMS STATS SHOULD NEVER BE NERFED !

You wanna kill the market - OK, but killing entirely the fun and years of time and money investments into top tier equipment is just something else. You are laughing at the playerbase.
Only an insane person would like the result, or peoples which is just envy that they could never reach the state of "that guy".
This is Uber morronic, and none sane developer would do it just "4 teh lulz".


3rd postulate : STANDARD is most important, the leagues is just a failed game attempt, or alpha at the best.

STOP PROPAGATING THEM AS "SOMETHING".

Path of Exile is going to have some serious competition soon.

Wolcen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr3G7M_pqqE