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that fight will kill FPS and PC very soon, so many effects + skills = rip PC.
To me its bad thing and not only me.
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Posted byTreeOfDeadon Dec 1, 2017, 3:42:50 PM
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So I'd love for the designer of this encounter to answer me this...when is a channeling or similar build that needs to be stationary supposed to deal damage?
There's a lot of talk about how problematic instant leech with insane instant attack damage is but this is one of the main reason builds gravitate towards that. Fights that leave no room to deal damage but instead focuses on ability overload.
Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the fights you make but they do pigeonhole the player in to certain builds due to this type of design. If you increase the health accordingly and instead alternate between periods of surviving priority and damage priority they would be so much more enjoyable.
Well, imo it is like that, for some bosses the periods are longer (i.e. Gorge boss), for some, they are shorter (i.e. Hydra or Shaper).
Take a build with Scorching Ray, it can't leech, channels and for the maximum amount of damage needs "longer" periods of channeling. Still it can easily get all the content done in 3.0. And as Shaper still is the "end of the atlas", it shouldn't have problems with Elder and its Guardians too.
This fight seems more like a Hydra or Shaper fight regarding the mechanics. Dodge, deal some damage for a short period, dodge again and so on... Of course some builds are better for this fight than others, as it will be for other fights the other way around.
Also: Instant leech will be gone in 3.1 (except for Atziri's Acuity I guess), so that won't be a "problem" anymore.
Hydra has the same design flaw. Shaper does have the beam as a down period where you can dps, my issue with Shaper design is primarily related to the floating balls that have too much RNG and can literally screw your run over. Besides if you stand in melee range of Shaper he only melees you which is tankable.
As far as dodge, deal som damage, doge, deal som damage I'd say the deal some damage part is what's lacking. I don't mind the boss gaining lets say 30% more life in order to make the dps windows longer and thus make the fight flow better. I don't mind the ability overload as long as it's followed by a clam period where you can dps before again having to dodge. So it's not about difficulty or that I suck at some encounter, I'm probably better than most at the game without tooting my own horn, it's about how the fights flow and make sense.
If you think of the fights in terms of WoW raid fights a lot of GGG's creations just feels a little bit off in how the design of the fights flow even if the idea is good. And while you can criticize Blizzard for a lot of things their raid fights are excellent.
As for instant leech...you're missing the point. They are removing instant leech without addressing what lead people to go for it en mass in the first place. Fights where there's no time to DPS "safely" or limited room exposing you to random risks of one-shots.
It's possible to create difficulty without limiting space to the extreme (Kitava/Minotaur), ability overload (Hydra/Phoenix) or a combination of them with added heavy RNG based one-shots (Minotaur again). Some of the problem comes from not really knowing what are we supposed to be able to tank and what abilities are deadly. It's telegraphed poorly in a lot of cases which in turn makes it hard to establish a baseline for what we're supposed to be able to "tank".
Minotaur is an example of everything wrong, imo, it's limiting your space in a non-intuitive way where you can't avoid it by playing smart. It's got constant damage that requires massive tank builds to counter without instant leech. And it's got a poorly telegraphed one-shot mechanic that is poorly designed (It targets totems/golems and what not that you might not even be aware of from off screen for example).
Shaper is an example of a really well designed boss on the other hand, the melee attacks are tankable for the most part that allows you to deal damage more sustained. The beam allows you dps windows as well if you can't tank the melee. It's got a well telegraphed one-shot mechanic. It's got a add phase to refill flasks. My only problem with it's design is the floating balls, not what they do but how erratic they are. Sometimes they spawn and chase you down when you need to be in Zana's bubble, something that shouldn't happen imo. During that phase and the portal phase with the adds said balls should float outwards and go in to a waiting state. That would allow for much more skill based dealing with the mechanic and prevent random spawns screwing your run over for no real reason. (Also they should stop spawning when you're not in the map =/).
These are end game bosses so it's only right that they test your build in every way.If your having issues with certain mechanics it doesn't mean they need nerfed...it means your build is weak to them and you need to change up something. GGG doesn't design the game around everyone's build. Everyone's build needs to be designed around the game.
The purpose of a player in a game is to learn to play in a way that allows you to beat the content.The purpose is not for the creator to learn to design a game in a way where everything beats it.We are the ones playing a game not GGG.I think you got the roles of the player and creator backward as if we create a build and ggg is the player who has to make the build beat the content.
I played games since regular Nintendo where if you couldnt beat a game you played and learned til you got good enough to finally be able to beat it...not where if you cant beat a game you just get on forums and cry til they nerfed what was killing you so you can finally beat it.
I would have expected this from a Diablo 3 player but I thought POE was for vet hardcore cutthroat gamer's.
Last edited by Stealthe on Dec 2, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
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Posted byStealtheon Dec 2, 2017, 9:41:25 PMBanned
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Uhmm multistage boss? Another hidden nerf of "high DPS with flasks characters". Hello Pathfinder....say Hi to retch wanders
Last edited by madziee on Dec 3, 2017, 1:17:50 AM
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Posted bymadzieeon Dec 3, 2017, 12:59:55 AM
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that fight will kill FPS and PC very soon, so many effects + skills = rip PC.
To me its bad thing and not only me.
The game is absolutely way more PC heavy than a game with its graphics should be. The strain on the CPU is far more than it should be. But if your computer has problems with boss fights like this then I think the issue is mostly in your computer and not in the game. I built my current computer 5 years ago and the only time I start really having issues is when I take out 2-3 screens of mobs at once, causes lots of procs to go off at once. Never had issues with boss fights. Maybe you should consider upgrading your pc.
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Uhmm multistage boss? Another hidden nerf of "high DPS with flasks characters". Hello Pathfinder....say Hi to retch wanders
When a character starts doing so much damage that it 1 shots a boss before the boss can do anything that removes all challenge from a boss. When your at end game bosses like guardians and shaper the people that farm those know the fights inside and out and their characters are usually really geared. I dont know how often you have gotten to the point where you can do that but in my personal experience by the time my character gets to a point where I can 1 shot a phase I already know the fight well enough that I'm most likely not going to die from an effect during transition. In fact I find multi stage boss fights more fun and more engaging because I cant run in 1 shot and run out.
Last edited by KuraiArashi on Dec 3, 2017, 11:14:28 AM
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Posted byKuraiArashion Dec 3, 2017, 11:10:02 AM
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Very nice
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Posted byalexei2218on Dec 3, 2017, 12:41:51 PM
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Nice!!!
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Posted byrafaelbvcon Dec 3, 2017, 7:45:33 PM
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