ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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Aim_Deep wrote:

A "mandate" not as easy as it sounds either. I dont want a HC plan only an accidental indemnity plan on off chance I get struck by lightning. How about let people be free and not buy over priced products we don't need from a private company. You own HC stocks or something? they did very good under Obama gettting to forceably extract Aamericans wealth

lol

I just thought I might decrease suffering in the world.

Too much to ask I know.

Meanwhilst, a million more Americans became uninsured.

Good times.

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Me wrote:

Paid for by whose stolen money?

I jest, but Aim_Deep's political philosophy of extremist "TAX IS THEFT SCHOOLS ARE EVIL" nonsense is less worth taking seriously in the way one might take string theory seriously and more worth taking seriously in the way one might take an infection of bubonic plague seriously - there's no good ideas there, but if you let it spread, things don't end well.

Case in point:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

People have always been covered here too. Big myth they havnt. First it was charity and Hippocratic oath. None died in streets even in 1800s with practically no govt. Then EMTALA came alon in the 1980s which says providers can not turn anyone away. What they want is Cadillac plan and someone else paying for them

This is just... what? Almost every word here is wrong in some substantial way, and not just the typos.

"People have always been covered"? Medical care in the 50s and 60s is utterly incomparable to health care nowadays, and at no point were there not plenty of people falling through the cracks.

"None died in the streets in the 1800s" is just... what? I have to assume this is pulled directly out of some particularly sweaty orifice, as I have no idea how you even get that wrong.

"Then EMTALA came alon in the 1980s which says providers can not turn anyone away" - EMTALA simply means that hospitals are not allowed to leave you to die if you can't pay, and it was instituted because... *checks notes* ah yes, because hospitals were dumping patients on the street, that problem that apparently didn't exist before EMTALA was enacted to solve it.

"What they want is Cadillac plan and someone else paying for them" - yeah, if you expect a hardline libertarian to actually understand why democrats seek policies, especially policies tried and tested in other first-world countries and found to be wildly successful, they're gonna come up with gibberish.

So yeah. As said: less worth taking seriously in the way one might take string theory seriously and more worth taking seriously in the way one might take an infection of bubonic plague seriously. This isn't political philosophy, it's making a mess with a keyboard. Every statement is so fractally wrong, and that leads to utterly bizarre conclusions, like that the government has no business providing for education, or that taxation is theft, or that taxation suddenly stops being theft if it's done on the state level... (Seriously are you even going to pretend to have a coherent political philosophy? I'd respect the balls at least to say, "No, we should have no public school system", but to go from "taxation is theft" to "taxation is okay but not by the federal government" just means you have no idea what you believe and should maybe spend some time figuring it out.)

What the fuck?!

It's basically a memetic disease, akin to antivax nonsense, and I have no pretentions of being able to cure him. Alas, such is life.

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rojimboo wrote:

So make it compulsory at federal level, mandate universal healthcare, and leave the specifics to the state level.

BOOYAA

Next problem?

haha, well if things were that easy, it wouldn't be a problem.

You can't mandate universal healthcare, without resorting to fines or arrests, and the EU doesn't do anything of the sort to its member states.

If you want Universal Healthcare to happen in the United States. It's not going to happen through a compulsory federal law.

We already tried that with Obamacare, and it ended badly for everyone.

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Xavderion wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

Weren't the attacker's attribution still unknown at that time?

Only if you lived in a cave for the past decade or so.

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faerwin wrote:

Beside, kind of hard to condemn ISIS (or cells of it) harder than declaring a war on them.

Radical Islamic Terrorism. It's not hard to say for normal people. It's also not hard to say Christians.

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faerwin wrote:

As for Easter, it's celebrated across most faiths with christians roots, which as you know, include many different faiths. So in that sense, I don't really see anything wrong with this. Better to envelop all of them in one go than forgetting one.

Nobody ever says "Easter worshippers". And Easter is a Christian holiday, there's no way around it. Which other faiths celebrate Easter, especially in a church?

You are so stupid sometimes? You claim that nobody says Easter worshipers when referring to people worshiping on Easter. That in and of itself is just a silly statement. Then to move it into stupid you yourself post a bunch of people saying exactly that!!! I really don't understand what you think that you're accomplishing by this?

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RPGlitch wrote:

We already tried that with Obamacare, and it ended badly for everyone.

Yeah, especially the 20 million people who got health insurance under Obamacare. In fact, it went so badly that republican attempts to repeal it consistently polled at a whopping 30-odd percent and the party was forced to renege on one of its main stated goals for the last half a decade!

Well, that's not fair. It's not thanks to Obamacare that the republican party decided to spend exactly zero time hashing out what the "replace" part of "repeal and replace" meant. It's the republicans' faults, for constantly lying about intending to replace it in the first place.

(And yes, compared to systems like the NHS, Obamacare is a bad joke. But a right-wing critique will necessarily fall short, because the problems with Obamacare almost all boil down to "it tried too hard to uphold the private health care market and compromise with the republican vision of what UHC should look like". And it's certainly a hell of a lot better than what we had before.)

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

(And yes, compared to systems like the NHS, Obamacare is a bad joke. But a right-wing critique will necessarily fall short, because the problems with Obamacare almost all boil down to "it tried too hard to uphold the private health care market and compromise with the republican vision of what UHC should look like". And it's certainly a hell of a lot better than what we had before.)

Just one of Trump's many lies. His plan was never to repeal and replace with something great. It was always to repeal and blame others for not replacing. He wanted it repealed because it is being paid for by a tax on the rich meaning himself. He is trying to get Obamacare struck down by the courts.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Tens of millions of Americans will remember the extra refund money and appreciate it. As I said (via edit) earlier, any Democrat that mocks that will be eaten alive.

As has surely been pointed out... The Trump tax cuts aren't popular. That's a first for what is basically the government giving people money, but they polled like deep-fried tampons when it was passed and it hasn't gotten substantially better since. I guess it's too early to really call, seeing as we haven't had a full tax season with them in place, but the idea that democrats who mock them will be eaten alive just isn't true - they've been hammering these tax cuts as a boondoggle for the super-rich for quite some time.

You'd think by now you'd have learned to take polls with a grain of salt. If you repress all your memories of the 2016 election, you'll never learn anything from it.

In this case, the obvious polling bias is that they started polling the tax cuts a full year before they were even applicable. Hell, I was honestly a little peaved that the couldn't apply them right away, when I was filing in 2018 for the 2017 year. Nobody had seen their money yet and they were bitterly aware it wasn't coming soon. As soon as you saw those polls you should have realized they were deliberate misinformation, designed to give people their opinion instead of tell it like it is.

The tax cut attitude is changing currently currently. It's not even properly pollable yet — that'll be more of a late May thing. And the Democrats have already fallen partially into Trump's trap — they attacked the cuts just as they attack everything he does, automatically, uncritically.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Aim_Deep's political philosophy of extremist "TAX IS THEFT SCHOOLS ARE EVIL" nonsense is less worth taking seriously in the way one might take string theory seriously and more worth taking seriously in the way one might take an infection of bubonic plague seriously - there's no good ideas there, but if you let it spread, things don't end well.

Two points:
1. You can't rape the willing.
2. You don't beat bad ideas by treating them like a plague. It's my sincere hope that Ghost's song Rats is ironic; it's beyond Orwellian otherwise. When it comes to bad ideas, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

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Budget_player_cadet wrote:

Yeah, especially the 20 million people who got health insurance under Obamacare. In fact, it went so badly that republican attempts to repeal it consistently polled at a whopping 30-odd percent and the party was forced to renege on one of its main stated goals for the last half a decade!

Yeah, it also raised premiums for everyone and fined anyone who didn't have enough money to pay for insurance.

Common, obamacare was not a popular bill.

And it was forced in a manner that required republicans to literally kill people, who had been moved to the new system if they wanted to completely repeal it.

Because once you add people to a healthcare plan. You can't exactly undo that without hurting people with pre-existing conditions.

And that kind of resentment that built up for doing that sneaky bullshit, is at least partly why it failed, and why the next President, simply dismantled it.

Once you start forcing things on people. It's not happening.

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Turtledove wrote:

Just one of Trump's many lies. His plan was never to repeal and replace with something great. It was always to repeal and blame others for not replacing. He wanted it repealed because it is being paid for by a tax on the rich meaning himself. He is trying to get Obamacare struck down by the courts.

I'm not sure he needs to get it struck down by the courts anymore. It seems more symbolic than anything else.

Obamacare is not much of a bill without the individual mandate, which Trump already removed in 2017.

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rojimboo wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

A "mandate" not as easy as it sounds either. I dont want a HC plan only an accidental indemnity plan on off chance I get struck by lightning. How about let people be free and not buy over priced products we don't need from a private company. You own HC stocks or something? they did very good under Obama gettting to forceably extract Aamericans wealth

lol

I just thought I might decrease suffering in the world.

Too much to ask I know.

Meanwhilst, a million more Americans became uninsured.

Good times.

You Europeans will never understand Americans especially those on the right because you don't understand Federalism our nation has. Thats why you balked at my suggestion that the Federal govt has no business in Education or HC. You also don't understand you have to make one guy suffer to alivate anothers with a huge rake by middle men who manage the program and it invariably is worse than before.

There is also a theory Staistism destroys social capital and community and charity but I'll leave that alone.

We are very different is all

Don't be surprized if Trump reelected even though 95% of Europeans can't understand it ...I tried to explain it but you but you're not listening.