Goodbye POE - nonsense game by design?

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth is poorly done trap game play.

So what would well-designed trap gameplay look like?

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karoollll2534 wrote:

I) Have you heared about "GRINDING Gear Games"?

I always love this "argument". I mean, game companies have all kinds of random names, and barely they have anything to do with their games, so why would I assume it has in this case?

Blizzard - can't remember seeing Thunderstorms in Starcraft.

Electronic Arts - their games don't come across particularly artsy.

Apple - not seen any apples in their games.

Valve - well, there are valves in some of their games, but...?

Ubisoft - not sure what an Ubi is.


Can you name ANY video game company where the name has anything to do with their game content, besides GGG? Where the grinding gears are I think more of what happens in the background while the game is busy putting out 10fps.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth is poorly done trap game play.

So what would well-designed trap gameplay look like?

Look at just about any game in that genre, Mario, Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Frogger, etc.. The character control is much better in those games. A good example of the pathetic nature of Labyrinth is a cubicle with a lever at the back of the cubicle, a saw blade running back and forth parallel along the outside wall of the cubicle, and a spike trap in the floor in the entrance of the cubicle. Click on the lever and if the spikes come up blocking the cubicle entrance then the PoE character will run along the outside of the cubicle wall and be destroyed by the saw blade. Very stupid design.

There would be little improvement to the game if people keep defending the game like a religion.

Some of the things are just downright poor. Saying that PoE is still better than XXX is not a good defense.

Lab, for various reasons, traps, no checkpoints can't find trials to complete Uber are all valid reason.

Than there is the Exp lost at death, that discourage peole to take hard contents while leveling, making the already grindy mapping more grindy. To add insult to injury, GGG imposed a experience gain penalty at lower level. making the higher level you are, the less fun the game becomes. The grind wouldn't be as bad, if there are variety in end game, but there isn't.

many games & almost all MMO are grindy, but there is nromally moving carrots so there is always a target witin reach, before you aim another. Look at GG. When you starte mapping, if the target is end game of guardians/shaper, it will be a fairly long time before you geared/level /oepn Atlas enough to do guardian/shaper, in between there is only one major carrot, the uberlab.In between are just grind, with next to zero variety except go to a map, kill mobs. Take D3, despite the massive hatred herem have variety in end game, from bounties, normal rift greater rift, key runs & challenges with rewards like protraits frames/wings/pets/stash tabs.

Also, game despite being ONLINE only, is literally design 99% for single player. Since trash mobs died like dominos even oon average gears, at high tier, there literally very little reason to play toegther, nevermind most maps are not design for MP (to have good mp maps, it need to have defined paths like on shore). When you play MP, it lags or you see shit with all the big AOE going around.

I like PoE, I do, & spend more moeny than I should on it, but there is many major flaws in the game.

The new league should be an improvemnet, enourage people to do different maps, which is right direction.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth is poorly done trap game play.

So what would well-designed trap gameplay look like?

Look at just about any game in that genre, Mario, Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Frogger, etc.. The character control is much better in those games. A good example of the pathetic nature of Labyrinth is a cubicle with a lever at the back of the cubicle, a saw blade running back and forth parallel along the outside wall of the cubicle, and a spike trap in the floor in the entrance of the cubicle. Click on the lever and if the spikes come up blocking the cubicle entrance then the PoE character will run along the outside of the cubicle wall and be destroyed by the saw blade. Very stupid design.

For a start, you do not retart the whole level in Tomb raider or Prince of persia, if you died in a trap, you start at checkpoints usually begin of tough traps.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth is poorly done trap game play.

So what would well-designed trap gameplay look like?

Look at just about any game in that genre, Mario, Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Frogger, etc.. The character control is much better in those games. A good example of the pathetic nature of Labyrinth is a cubicle with a lever at the back of the cubicle, a saw blade running back and forth parallel along the outside wall of the cubicle, and a spike trap in the floor in the entrance of the cubicle. Click on the lever and if the spikes come up blocking the cubicle entrance then the PoE character will run along the outside of the cubicle wall and be destroyed by the saw blade. Very stupid design.

If you see a lever in Mario / Tomb Raider and start running directly towards it without considering the path inbetween you and the lever, you will also die horribly in some spike trap.
Maybe try another way to play these games instead of "click somewhere, then zone out until your character reached your destination for you"

But that's probably also the point of the OP about "gamse are for fun, not for challenges".
A lot of other threads here also sound like "But i only want fast-food gaming without any thought/timing required" with all the pleas for endless/mindless dungeon, craving the feeling of being rewarded without any conscious decision on the players part.
Good thing there are still companies around trying for interesting non-mainstream gameplay...

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Antaiseito wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

So what would well-designed trap gameplay look like?

Look at just about any game in that genre, Mario, Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Frogger, etc.. The character control is much better in those games. A good example of the pathetic nature of Labyrinth is a cubicle with a lever at the back of the cubicle, a saw blade running back and forth parallel along the outside wall of the cubicle, and a spike trap in the floor in the entrance of the cubicle. Click on the lever and if the spikes come up blocking the cubicle entrance then the PoE character will run along the outside of the cubicle wall and be destroyed by the saw blade. Very stupid design.

If you see a lever in Mario / Tomb Raider and start running directly towards it without considering the path inbetween you and the lever, you will also die horribly in some spike trap.
Maybe try another way to play these games instead of "click somewhere, then zone out until your character reached your destination for you"

But that's probably also the point of the OP about "gamse are for fun, not for challenges".
A lot of other threads here also sound like "But i only want fast-food gaming without any thought/timing required" with all the pleas for endless/mindless dungeon, craving the feeling of being rewarded without any conscious decision on the players part.
Good thing there are still companies around trying for interesting non-mainstream gameplay...

Zone out? So what is the correct move in this situation? Wait until the spike traps pop up so you know you can "safely" click on the lever after they go down or use blink arrow to move 2 steps? Note, if you answer yes to these possible alternatives then I will have to thank you in advance for verifying that it is a stupid design.

If you don't like that example. Then how about the pitiful loathsome Trial of Burning Rage? Wait for the floor to cool, run over and flip a lever, wait for the floor to cool, run back to where you started, wait for the floor to cool run over to see if the damn door is open, nope, wait for the floor to cool, run over to the next lever, wait for floor to cool, while wishing that you were playing about any other game in the world besides this labyrinth monstrosity, run back to the door again and go through the door. Rinse and repeat ad nausea um assuming you have any desire to continue playing this piece of loathsome crap that insults and belittles GGG's otherwise good name.

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Turtledove wrote:

If you don't like that example. Then how about the pitiful loathsome Trial of Burning Rage? Wait for the floor to cool, run over and flip a lever, wait for the floor to cool, run back to where you started, wait for the floor to cool run over to see if the damn door is open, nope, wait for the floor to cool, run over to the next lever, wait for floor to cool, while wishing that you were playing about any other game in the world besides this labyrinth monstrosity, run back to the door again and go through the door. Rinse and repeat ad nausea um assuming you have any desire to continue playing this piece of loathsome crap that insults and belittles GGG's otherwise good name.

That's how you play until you realize that the degen is pretty low so that many builds can just leapslam or even run through it. The endless enemy spawns are there to leech your life back if needed.

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Sa_Re wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

If you don't like that example. Then how about the pitiful loathsome Trial of Burning Rage? Wait for the floor to cool, run over and flip a lever, wait for the floor to cool, run back to where you started, wait for the floor to cool run over to see if the damn door is open, nope, wait for the floor to cool, run over to the next lever, wait for floor to cool, while wishing that you were playing about any other game in the world besides this labyrinth monstrosity, run back to the door again and go through the door. Rinse and repeat ad nausea um assuming you have any desire to continue playing this piece of loathsome crap that insults and belittles GGG's otherwise good name.

That's how you play until you realize that the degen is pretty low so that many builds can just leapslam or even run through it. The endless enemy spawns are there to leech your life back if needed.

Blowing through those traps by moving the way most players move around maps does have the virtue of making the time spent moving across them shorter.

But, if those traps are either the kind of "move, wait, move, wait, move, ..." pointless waste of time Turtle is describing or if you can bypass them basically by just pressing down a mouse button until your character is through them, then either way those kinds of traps amount nothing more than boring busywork.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Blowing through those traps by moving the way most players move around maps does have the virtue of making the time spent moving across them shorter.

But, if those traps are either the kind of "move, wait, move, wait, move, ..." pointless waste of time Turtle is describing or if you can bypass them basically by just pressing down a mouse button until your character is through them, then either way those kinds of traps amount nothing more than boring busywork.

The same description can be used for fighting most hard bosses, if you split them into just two catagories.

1) Wait for an opportunity to attack whiled dodging, attack, repeat.
2) Just hold down the attack button

However Bosses, like the Labyrinth traps are both something in between.

In the case of the Labyrinth finding the right mix of knowing when to take in slow, when your build allows you to speed through.

Just as in Boss fights knowing when you have to dodge and concentrate on staying alive or tank away deal damage until you have to pull out to heal and dodge.

Neither is Black or White.