[3.0] Dual Scourge Necro Spectral Throw by Paige | Easy T16+ | Videos | Leveling Guide | 70c Budget

True. The problem I have is not lack of hp, but rather defenses as a whole. I feel like general mapping is easy, but random bosses can be very tough.

I've never attempted guardians on any build, but I feel like I have a long way to go with ny current gear.

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OhhPaigey wrote:

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nubslime wrote:

how does a belly of the beast compare to the perfect form?

Imo Belly of the Beast is overpriced, unless you really need the resistances, I'd take Perfect Form any day of the week. I think people worry too much about how high their Life is instead of worrying about actual defenses.

tru that, im somewhat excited to try the perfect form since i've never used one before. gotta wait for my shit to sell tho, o well. Thanks for the reply btw :D

Hello boys, I have a couple of questions about the build. I'm 82 right now and its working good (not as good as a BF for example, but good), but I have some doubts about:

1. Why "beacon of corruption" instead of minor +15% minion dmg?
2. Taking "lord of the dead" and the minor minion dmg for a total of +30% minion dmg could be a good idea?
3. If we are using "perfect form", then why do we want enlighten instead of lets say "minion life support" for the golem or a curse manually launched?
4. Why we need a helmet with the decceleration thing, instead of a bone helmet with +40% minion dmg?

I hope someone can help me.

PD: sorry my bad english

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sarahschneider wrote:

I was very interested in playing this build because I was bored, but honestly, there are a few things that didn't feel quite right, for me at least (no offense though, just curious).

First, this comment...

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OhhPaigey wrote:

2% Leech is the cap in this game. You can only leech 2% life & mana. So any more is a waste. We already leech from the Soul Raker passive, and dual Scourges puts us at like 5.2% leech, over double the maximum amount. So any more leech on gear or anywhere else is a wasted stat.

This is a false information. Especially since the build took Vaal Pact. 2% is not the leech cap in PoE, 2% is the cap for leech rate per instance of leech up to a maximum of 10 leech instances. And life leech amount =/= life leech rate. While it's normally true that 2% is enough (since you'll generally reach the leech rate cap anyway when you're hitting stuff), the cap is ignored when you have vaal pact, or in short there's no life leech cap when you have Vaal Pact hence, more leech is not a wasted stat.

Second, with a 50%+ crit based build (75% effective with diamond, and over 90% with Assassin's Mark), why aren't you using a diamond flask? that one cheap flask adds more effective dps than almost both Atziri's Promise and Taste of Hate combined. And why Damage on Full Life? Increased Critical Damage is a better option by far.

Third, why drop the curse? I didn't see any reasoning as to why (sorry if I missed it). Herald gives no where near the dps that a curse be it Projectile Weakness or Assassin's Mark gives you. If range is the problem (for some reason), and since you still use Hatred, why not just use the usual HoI+CoH+Curse? You can even put Onslaught on top of that.

Fourth, this comment..

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OhhPaigey wrote:

Your go-to rings should be x2 Steel Rings with Physical Damage to Attacks, Life, Accuracy, Lightning Damage to Attacks

Attack Speed in Steel Rings has almost the same DPS contribution as a T1 flat phys roll and it's easier/cheaper to get, it'll also be more beneficial to the build overall since it affects your movement skill, which means that it's more practical to look for one with Attack Speed roll and then craft the flat damage on it. But your guide seems to neglect mentioning that one affix for some reason.

Lastly, your introduction. Which is a bit odd. The mention of ele damage meta but at the same time saying that phys damage is king. That made no sense, if phys damage is king, wouldn't it be the meta? The argument used that mobs does have crap for armor and that elemental attacks does rely on penetration for endgame bosses are true. But that does not help physical attack's case. Because it's simple, one penetration gem + the 'new' penetration stuff that we have right now (lightning pen, fire pen, cold pen) is enough to completely nullify Shaper's inherent resists and it's so easy to stack elemental multipliers right now that I can't see how a physical ST will ever come anywhere near an ele-crit ST builds when it comes to dps. Case in point, you can make an ele ST with over 1mil dps easily, I doubt that a pure phys scourge ST can even break 500k. But that's hardly the point, not every build have to have insane dps.

In the end, I didn't come here to trash on the build. On the contrary, I found it interesting the first time and I'm planning to follow the build myself. But so many things seemed a bit off for me, and please don't think this the wrong way, I appreciate you making a guide, and my comments are just that, comments.

I think you are focusing too much on PoB instead of actual gameplay. A lot of times in my different builds I get questioned about a seemingly obvious gem choice when looking at PoB, or why I drop a curse and use a Herald, ect. The answer is quite simple, I also use PoB, however I don't follow it completely to a tee, because a lot of times if you follow what is absolutely optimal in PoB, your build will actually feel weaker when in actual gameplay.

So, yes, I've tried just about everything PoB suggests, and I've wasted hundreds of regrets, tons of exalts, chaos orbs, ect on different setups, and generally what I post here is what I've felt is actually best, and what I am personally running. PoB also claims that crit damage is the best gem for pretty much any crit build I've run, something about crit multi shoots PoB DPS (and tooltip DPS) through the roof, but I don't find it to actually be doing much in a lot of cases.

Damage on Full Life is the best gem by far, again, from what I tested, if I had to guess why PoB places it so low on the list, it's probably assuming you are not at full life for X amount of times, but with Vaal Pact and Spec Throw being a ranged skill as it is, you are essentially always full life (just a random thought). Just to add on to my preference for Damage on Full Life, I found a lot of times without it, I wasn't doing enough damage to 1 shot T15 & T16 packs in 1 throw, which is what I was going for, Damage on Full Life allowed me achieve this, however.

Diamond Flask, again preference through testing, my distaste for the Diamond Flask gets brought up in a couple of my build threads, I'm just not a fan of it in most cases, again, I felt my other flasks were doing considerably more when compared to a Diamond Flask.

The curse drop, this one was a tough choice, and I'll explain why. Originally I was using Herald of Ash, but I mentioned I wasn't happy with clear speed (damage related, and later fixed when I started using Damage on Full Life) on trash mobs in very high tier maps, and you're right, a curse is technically (according to PoB anyways) a nice boost compared to Herald of Ash, I think PoB was putting Proj Weakness around 40k~ DPS, and Herald of Ash around 20k~ for my character.

Another problem I was running into is fitting basic gems into the build (like a golem) because of how tight I was on gem slots. A curse setup takes at a bare minimum two, (blasphemy + curse) and probably Enlighten. While Herald of Ash I could fit in with Hatred, and then also get an Ice Golem into the build. The damage vs bosses I believe was pretty even when I did the math, with Herald of Ash slightly edging it out by hardly anything, but Herald of Ash also has another very nice mechanic which applies an AoE burn with the damage based on your overkill damage on that target, if you pay attention during mapping, you'll find this is very valuable, and can help clear out those almost 1 shot mobs that are still chasing you around. So yeah, a nice AoE overkill burn, slightly better boss damage, able to run curse immune maps without losing anything, an extra gem slot for a Golem, I decided Herald of Ash was best.

Herald of Ice + Curse on Hit + Curse + possibly Onslaught setup was heavily debated too, again, the issue came down mostly to gem slots, me not being a fan of curses, especially since I was trying to push this build far into bosses and general map clearing damage was enough. The other problem with having a large amount of cold damage, and basing the build around consuming corpses to benefit from Offerings is the fact cold damage shatters, and shattering corpses while also requiring corpses to make the build function is counter intuitive. Before you mention the fact I use Hatred, I do, because the damage boost from it is too good to give up, though just Hatred is not enough to shatter the majority of mobs.

Regarding Physical damage vs Ele damage. Physical damage is king, if you have the option to go physical based, or ele based, I'd take physical every single time. You're right there's the obvious ways to penetrate through resistances, though a gem is not enough to completely penetrate resists, neither is Wise Oak, and especially not vs bosses, now the same build, but phys based, has that extra gem slot, that extra flask slot, that extra boot enchant (since most builds run the ele pen boot enchant too), there's just a lot of sacrifices made in order to make that ele damage actually count, not to mention how expensive any Ele damage weapon costs, insane amounts, it just didn't make sense to do for a build like this, which I also was aiming for putting my Witch to work when thinking about this build. Also because ele damage is meta, everything related to scaling it (WED, flat ele damage, ect) on gear is ridiculously overpriced. Meta builds completely ruin the point of a solid build once a big streamer or Youtuber hops on board and starts making content about it, now prices triple and you're overpaying for something that was 5 times cheaper a day ago. Those double phys Steel Rings wouldn't be anywhere near the price they are now if a certain OP bow build didn't rely on them. But my less than 1c claws rivaling a 50 Ex phys damage claw is nice, you can't find something like that if this was ele based.

Ultimately, there's a reason to my madness, I like trying weird things, I've been running FP since 2.0, I gotta be a little crazy. I'm not about to hop on board with a meta mentality when there's things out there just as good once players find out about them.

No worries, I didn't take offense to your post, I think more build guides should be questioned regarding their choices on a lot of things.

Even if I didn't change your mind, and you think the Crit Damage gem + diamond flask + curse is better than what I recommend, at least you (and other people) know that I did actually try those different routes and just wasn't a fan of them. Because I may have easily just forgot about those different choices.

Again, it's important to question things that may seem off, because it's very easy to mistype, or simply look over something when you're spending 20+ hours to write a build guide, while tabbing over to do trades and everything else.

So thank you, for your post, criticism, questions/concerns. This is what we need more of on here.

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xelxlolox wrote:

Hello boys, I have a couple of questions about the build. I'm 82 right now and its working good (not as good as a BF for example, but good), but I have some doubts about:

1. Why "beacon of corruption" instead of minor +15% minion dmg?
2. Taking "lord of the dead" and the minor minion dmg for a total of +30% minion dmg could be a good idea?
3. If we are using "perfect form", then why do we want enlighten instead of lets say "minion life support" for the golem or a curse manually launched?
4. Why we need a helmet with the decceleration thing, instead of a bone helmet with +40% minion dmg?

I hope someone can help me.

PD: sorry my bad english

1: Taking an extra minion damage node could be okay, probably less than 1% overall damage though. I just figured I'd mess around with Beacon of Corruption, it's not awful.

2: Originally I was taking Lord of Dead, but then I realized how little damage is actually added, just not worth it given our other possible choices.

3: I don't understand what you mean here, sorry. I will say spec throw + flesh offering can eat up a lot of mana, and we actually reserve quite a lot of mana through auras, so Enlighten is required. I'm not a fan of curses, I go into more detail in my post above this one.

4: 40% Minion Damage is overall very very low damage overall. I doubt it's even near 2% overall damage if I had to guess. Where as deceleration, allowing your Spec Throw to hit an extra time or more depending on the targets hit box, is going to end up being a lot more than 2% overall damage.

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Erayo wrote:

True. The problem I have is not lack of hp, but rather defenses as a whole. I feel like general mapping is easy, but random bosses can be very tough.

I've never attempted guardians on any build, but I feel like I have a long way to go with ny current gear.

Try checking out my deathless guardian videos, vs certain bosses whirling blades to proc Fortify to survive can be very beneficial. Like Chimera add phases for example. Proper flask use, better gear, more life skill tree, better jewels, are the other, more obvious ways of feeling more tanky.

Also maintaining Bone Offering instead of Flesh Offering could help.

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Vylkin wrote:

For the last ascendancy, wouldn't it be better to take the two small minion damage nodes? I'm not seeing why Beacon of corruption was chosen. Is it because the caustic cloud applies to the wolves?

That was my thought, yes. The overall damage of 15% minion damage is extremely minuscule, but it might make sense to absolutely min/max. It's just less than 1% overall damage though.

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OhhPaigey wrote:

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xelxlolox wrote:

Hello boys, I have a couple of questions about the build. I'm 82 right now and its working good (not as good as a BF for example, but good), but I have some doubts about:

1. Why "beacon of corruption" instead of minor +15% minion dmg?
2. Taking "lord of the dead" and the minor minion dmg for a total of +30% minion dmg could be a good idea?
3. If we are using "perfect form", then why do we want enlighten instead of lets say "minion life support" for the golem or a curse manually launched?
4. Why we need a helmet with the decceleration thing, instead of a bone helmet with +40% minion dmg?

I hope someone can help me.

PD: sorry my bad english

1: Taking an extra minion damage node could be okay, probably less than 1% overall damage though. I just figured I'd mess around with Beacon of Corruption, it's not awful.

2: Originally I was taking Lord of Dead, but then I realized how little damage is actually added, just not worth it given our other possible choices.

3: I don't understand what you mean here, sorry. I will say spec throw + flesh offering can eat up a lot of mana, and we actually reserve quite a lot of mana through auras, so Enlighten is required. I'm not a fan of curses, I go into more detail in my post above this one.

4: 40% Minion Damage is overall very very low damage overall. I doubt it's even near 2% overall damage if I had to guess. Where as deceleration, allowing your Spec Throw to hit an extra time or more depending on the targets hit box, is going to end up being a lot more than 2% overall damage.

Thnx dude, you rock! i just got more dmg and im clearing t14!

you might be able to squeeze in a lvl 1 clarity to get an extra 3% attack speed from commander of darknes (not much i know but i know you like min maxing)

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OhhPaigey wrote:

Try checking out my deathless guardian videos, vs certain bosses whirling blades to proc Fortify to survive can be very beneficial. Like Chimera add phases for example. Proper flask use, better gear, more life skill tree, better jewels, are the other, more obvious ways of feeling more tanky.

Also maintaining Bone Offering instead of Flesh Offering could help.

More or less a matter of gitgud then ;) As I figured.

Spectral throw really is a blast. I really enjoy the fact that movement and positioning is so important compared to other skill out there!


And again, thanks for the truly awesome guide! This is probably up there with Neversink's TS guide in terms of layout and ease of use!