How is one supposed to design their own builds as a semi-casual player?

Part of what I find fun in games like this is creating my own builds, not mindlessly following what the internet tells me to do. Trying to tweak your build to get the optimal path and discover it on your own, rather than just googling what the best thing to do is.

The problem is that any significant change to a build is (from what I've read) extremely expensive, and a massive time-sink, and is simply not feasible for players who want to create their own builds. The advice given to any new player is "Lookup a build online". Why would anybody want to do that? Simply look up a build and follow it mindlessly.

The choice for new players ends up being either lose the creativity in your build and follow one online, or get screwed over in the later areas when you realize that you can't progress any further.

It ends up being that there is virtually no "build your own playstyle", so much as "follow somebody else's".

I understand that GGG wants PoE to be more old-fashioned and hardcore, and I absolutely don't think that Respec's should be given away like candy, but the fact that building and tweaking your own character and style is virtually impossible for a semi-casual player is just poor design -- what's the point in having builds if 99% of players can't really create their own?

I really want to enjoy this game, but having to be limited to only a one or two playstyles per character simply isn't fun -- I don't want to have to put in dozens of hours in order to enjoy a single playstyle or skill gem; And as someone who absolutely loves creating their own builds, it sucks seeing how hard it is to do so.


PS: yes I know there have been several threads about this

You can get with your own builds to level 90 and low red maps, but that's where the casual experience ends.

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ScottyAye wrote:

Part of what I find fun in games like this is creating my own builds,(...)
The problem is that any significant change to a build is (from what I've read) extremely expensive, and a massive time-sink,

New build = new hero
Problem solved.
With some game knowledge and "twink" gear, you can level up a new hero in no time.

Like that
6 hours 1 to 70 ssf leveling youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phziw7NdZn0

Own experience:
My very first build was own creation and took hundred of ex till pushed to lvl 100. Curiosity: until level cca 94 I had no idea builds guide exist or there is something like poe.trade.

After such experience I made another one and spent cca 10ex worth of regrets + items - for example 6x 6L with different colors + lvl 21 gems and costs was another 100 ex.

Now costs are much lower, but still its few ex more than normal. + time and reselling items to new players.

I dont think its possible to achieve goals ( or builds) without using lot of currency without praxe, as poe wiki only helps with theory but many time things look good on paper but in praxe its fail.

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Mythabril wrote:

You can get with your own builds to level 90 and low red maps, but that's where the casual experience ends.

I would be shocked if a random casual could make a build that would take him or her past 80. This game's end game is so unforgiving when it comes to exp progression.

I never got into high-end content ever because I basically stopped growing my character beyond lv 60 and try experiment with another build
from my perspective, there's 2 way to approach build making, play around skill gem or play around weapon
the former are more stable since they don't usually nerf any skill gem and latter might get changed every patch
my usual flowchart will be :

1. decide what main skill gem I'll use
2. check on what ascendancy works best with that skill
3. choose what kind of defense I'll use (evasion, armor, ES)
3a. if I use ES, should I go life+ES or CI+ES
4. think what Keystone which synergy with the defense aspect
5. think what keystone which synergy with the offence aspect
6. grab as many main offensive notable node as possible (eg if you go for fire build, search "Fire damage" and take them all)
7. take as many defensive notable node as possible (eg if you choose Life, take as many life node near your main path) <at this point, I usually has around 20-30 ish point left
8. spent the rest of point in either fortifying your defense or grab global damage bonus (eg if you play elemental, grab "Elemental damage" node)

Bandit choice is quite simple. if you're 2 points left from keystone or notable node, kill them all
else, if you're life-based build, Oak. if you need mana regen, Alira. if you want maximum Acrobatic dodge, Kraityn. think of it in that order. Kraityn is so bad atm, I hope they'll buff it in the future

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Nephalim wrote:

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Mythabril wrote:

You can get with your own builds to level 90 and low red maps, but that's where the casual experience ends.

I would be shocked if a random casual could make a build that would take him or her past 80. This game's end game is so unforgiving when it comes to exp progression.

Yay, got to lvl 82 and still live (league ended) with my own slow Melee jank build :D

@OP
I also think it's absolutely boring to follow a guide from another player.
So i would advice that for your first character, try a more general build (i started as physical Bow Ranger, because in HC i wanted to keep my distance to learn what the enemies can do and set my first goal on Acrobatics, then went from there) and just experiment with any skills and combinations you find and that fit your general character direction.
They are not very expensive to buy.

It's also not THAT hard to change tweak a characters general playstyle, i even remade my whole Asccendancy Tree (20 respec points) and it wasn't a problem, since you get like 24 from the story and if you make it to endgame you can just farm a bit of currency to buy regrets.
If you want to drastically change your build, like maybe you want to make your ES-Trapper into a Life-Bow-Dude or something just start a new character and level him with the stuff you found on your first character. It will be MUCH faster with the knowledge/items you gained.

Just got suprised yesterday how much fun Infernal Blow is (wanted to make a Chieftain to make things burn, but not just Totems). It's really great to see your own build come together.

Killing Shaper will take a while i guess, but i'm still strictly HC (more fun for me), so a while may be some more years ^^
(still need to learn and survive Acts 6-10, let's see if SC is needed for a bit xD)

Good luck, have fun, and do your own thing :)

I would advise any new player to copy a build step-by-step for the first build. If they dont want to frustrate themselves into oblivion that is.

Once you have better understanding of the game you can tweak existing builds to suit your playstyle. For example, I did a life based RF build last league, but I ended up favouring more tankiness than damage on the tree. To compensate for that I came up with a triple curse setup with +curse on 2 items. I did my own thing and it worked out well for me, and I would consider myself a complete casual 6 months ago when I did it.

But you have to start somewhere, this game is not very beginner friendly.

There are two main elements to "succeed" in PoE; time investment and knowledge.

To make your own builds, you need knowledge - especially if you want to take the build far into maps. If I was to give any advice here, it would be; let go of any stubbornness - follow a guide/build or two - you can learn A LOT from reading and following guides from people with said knowledge. With this knowledge, you can start making your own, successful builds.

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ScottyAye wrote:

I understand that GGG wants PoE to be more old-fashioned and hardcore, and I absolutely don't think that Respec's should be given away like candy, but the fact that building and tweaking your own character and style is virtually impossible for a semi-casual player is just poor design -- what's the point in having builds if 99% of players can't really create their own?

Where do you think is the line of being 'semi-casual'? In this game, this CANT just be translated into 'aim-for-the-max-but-invest-like-notime'. If you are "limited" in your time ressources, you basicall HAVE to adjust your expectations... And if you 'take care' and progress slowly and need like 50 hours (spread like over 20 days) to be ready to feel 'comfortable' in even mid maps: then the league is almost over before you'll notice - and there's your free and handy respec.
Its even less of a 'gap' if you experiment with more then one char... and after some of such leagues you 'finally' have so much gear in stock and chars in the 'permanent' slots, which all are waiting to be rebuild and progressed further (or can be used to experiment with new ideas, until they retire on a fail for the end of the next league).

And for the 'other' part of the question: there's a minimal 'base' effort needed to make a build around a specific skill 'work'. This base CAN not differ much between all similar concepts. (like: taking minion skills, passives and stats for a necro build)
For the hardest goals ingame, the demands for builds come closer and closer to perfection; up to a point where you'll find no room for differences compared to 'professional' build guides from others: because there's no longer 'room' to be weaker.

But your own, well-thought concept can ('still') carry your char far into the game, you dont have to copy 1:1 from anyone... but here it comes back to the question: how 'semi-casual' are your expectations and goals?