[3.1] The Blinding Blizzard - Whispering Ice Berserker - Viable for Most Everything

"

Zelvas wrote:

Each enemy hit =/= Each enemy hit by your spells.

It's like comparing apples to pears. However what Med1umentor said could be the case with the Watcher's Eye.

Since we use Orb of Storm to trigger EO more reliably because it has multiple unique hits per cast it can crit multiple times during it's duration providing us with EO. Icestorm on the other hand will crit all it's icicles during one cast if that cast was sa crit during it's duration.

So what you guys could do is try the jewel with spells similar to Eye of Storm.

Thanks for the video btw Kelvynn! Awesome!

I'm currently using the vitality jewel (with life on hit), and same result, infinite life as long there are monsters.

Can do a video if you want.


Anyway, i'm pretty sure the futur of this build is neither CI nor life with Kaom, but Hybrid.

"

Keyen wrote:

"

Zelvas wrote:

Each enemy hit =/= Each enemy hit by your spells.

It's like comparing apples to pears. However what Med1umentor said could be the case with the Watcher's Eye.

Since we use Orb of Storm to trigger EO more reliably because it has multiple unique hits per cast it can crit multiple times during it's duration providing us with EO. Icestorm on the other hand will crit all it's icicles during one cast if that cast was sa crit during it's duration.

So what you guys could do is try the jewel with spells similar to Eye of Storm.

Thanks for the video btw Kelvynn! Awesome!

I'm currently using the vitality jewel (with life on hit), and same result, infinite life as long there are monsters.

Can do a video if you want.


Anyway, i'm pretty sure the futur of this build is neither CI nor life with Kaom, but Hybrid.

Hybrid builds are that strange child, who just can't get popular kid, even if by some miracle he is better than others.

I myself believe that hybrids are mostly useless and using them only if i don't have other choice. Jack of all trades, master of none, why do you want that in late game?

"

Med1umentor wrote:

Hybrid builds are that strange child, who just can't get popular kid, even if by some miracle he is better than others.

I myself believe that hybrids are mostly useless and using them only if i don't have other choice. Jack of all trades, master of none, why do you want that in late game?

Because in the meta, hybrid have two problems:
-First, they reduce the sustain since you can't leech either life or ES (and so, the 20/40% is based on roughly 60% of you real effective HP)
-Second, you have to divide too much between increased life and increased ES.


But in this build, the two problems doesn't exist.
-The sustain is actually increased by the fact you go hybrid. With a watcher's Eye Vitality + discipline (~8 exa currently, not cheap but affordable in end game), you get 60 EHP per hit, which is HUGE. You can go up to 90 EHP/hit with the rings "HP on hit with spells". You don't need leech, and so, you can ditch both the leech (and the berserker) and VP (which is a huge waste of point if you don't need it).
-Since the build rely on huge amount of Int, you don't really need the increased ES as much. You can just get Foresight, Arcane Focus, Melding and Written in blood, and you still have around 400% increased ES (and 187% increased life). Then, you simply get ES stuff with life. A random 460 ES chest + 100 life actually gives 2500 ES + 290 life, while a Kaom heart only gives 1435 life. And you get the sockets, the resists and the int.


Compared to a pure life build:
-You get the ES ignore stun, a larger HP pool, more sockets, more damage.

Compared to a CI build:
-You get the possibility to use life flasks, and the transition is more smoothly in end game since you don't need to respect a whole bunch of points once you decide to go CI. You also get more EHP since you don't waste the base life and the life from cyclopean coil and astramentis.


Edit: A quick example, with trashy stuff. Still 5K HP + 5 K ES:
https://pastebin.com/wXNcbGnA

"

Keyen wrote:

Because in the meta, hybrid have two problems:
-First, they reduce the sustain since you can't leech either life or ES (and so, the 20/40% is based on roughly 60% of you real effective HP)
-Second, you have to divide too much between increased life and increased ES.


But in this build, the two problems doesn't exist.
-The sustain is actually increased by the fact you go hybrid. With a watcher's Eye Vitality + discipline (~8 exa currently, not cheap but affordable in end game), you get 60 EHP per hit, which is HUGE. You can go up to 90 EHP/hit with the rings "HP on hit with spells". You don't need leech, and so, you can ditch both the leech (and the berserker) and VP (which is a huge waste of point if you don't need it).
-Since the build rely on huge amount of Int, you don't really need the increased ES as much. You can just get Foresight, Arcane Focus, Melding and Written in blood, and you still have around 400% increased ES (and 187% increased life). Then, you simply get ES stuff with life. A random 460 ES chest + 100 life actually gives 2500 ES + 290 life, while a Kaom heart only gives 1435 life. And you get the sockets, the resists and the int.


Compared to a pure life build:
-You get the ES ignore stun, a larger HP pool, more sockets, more damage.

Compared to a CI build:
-You get the possibility to use life flasks, and the transition is more smoothly in end game since you don't need to respect a whole bunch of points once you decide to go CI. You also get more EHP since you don't waste the base life and the life from cyclopean coil and astramentis.


Edit: A quick example, with trashy stuff. Still 5K HP + 5 K ES:
https://pastebin.com/wXNcbGnA

Yeah, yeah, i understand that. Exactly why i said "even if by some miracle he is better than others".
But here is the thing.
Sustain on watcher eye is strange right now, so i will notdepend on it too much.
Dividing between life and ES is exactly what i don't want.

ES gear with life is the only thing that sway me, but all the others are cons.

As you said, your leech much worse because life is less, especially without VP. Watcher's eye can't sustain you on bosses, it was already prooven. And before you go down to your life, you practically don't leech at all, except watcher eye, which isn't so good as we expected, so in pinch you will go down to 5k effective life pool without defenses.

Also, you didn't count CI immunity to chaos, which would be your worst nightmare with hybrid, considering less life.

5k life will not ignore stun.
Larger EHP pool, not HP pool. HP pool will be lower as well as leech.

Life flask on hybrid is almost useless. if i down to half of my EHP, it's already bad situation, but i still can't use it. Wow, no. i would rather keep utility flask to not get that damage.
Transition is smooth, yes. It always was and one of the few hybrid pro's, but in complete build it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, that's the thing - i'm theorycrafting too, so it can be true. What i see that you are clinging to watcher's eye, so i can't approve it when we still don't have idea what's wrong with it.

If you will test it, make a video with it and show that your version is superior - that's another matter.

All the times when i tried hybrids or saw other's people hybrids, they were looked cool in numbers, but were desperately weak in action.

No, you obviously don't understand. You didn't tried watcher eyes. You were even talking about removing it two pages ago. You were saying it worked once per mob or on last icestorm casted (nothing in the game works like that), which is something nobody who tried the jewel for even 5 sec could have said.

Seriously. For the 5th time, with 90 EHP on hit, YOU DON'T NEED THE LEECH, even in single target.


Also:
-Having ES gives 50% chance to ignore stun. So, yes, 5K HP + a bit of ES (something you will always have because of ES regen on hit) will be stunned less often than someone with 7K hp. Basic game mecanics.
-Having 5K HP is enough (by a fucking long shot) to tank chaos damage. It's not "your worst nightmare", you actually don't really care about it since you will regen it even if your ES is not down (especially if your ES is not down).

"

Keyen wrote:

No, you obviously don't understand. You didn't tried watcher eyes. You were even talking about removing it two pages ago. You were saying it worked once per mob or on last icestorm casted (nothing in the game works like that), which is something nobody who tried the jewel for even 5 sec could have said.

Seriously. For the 5th time, with 90 EHP on hit, YOU DON'T NEED THE LEECH, even in single target.


Also:
-Having ES gives 50% chance to ignore stun. So, yes, 5K HP + a bit of ES (something you will always have because of ES regen on hit) will be stunned less often than someone with 7K hp. Basic game mecanics.
-Having 5K HP is enough (by a fucking long shot) to tank chaos damage. It's not "your worst nightmare", you actually don't really care about it since you will regen it even if your ES is not down (especially if your ES is not down).



And don't talk to me about theorycrafting when the tree in OP is missing 31% more dps in single targ

Sheesh, chill down.
I'm indeed didn't tried watcher eye, and i never claimed so. But i saw video of kelvin and read his impression on this. So i have quite a doubt about consistency of watcher eye without addition of leech. Especially on bosses when it's needed more than any other time.
And i never talked about removing anything 2 pages ago. Read carefully please, before accusing people. I said that "i have a theory, which most probably false", just as a suggestion of why something not working as we thought it would. And "nothing in the game works like that" isn't an excuse. Every patch, new mechanics added. Only god (and GGG) knows how that aura jewel applied and can be very well applied in strange way. For example, the same way as DOT kills always count as yours, even though DOT was applied by trap/minion/totem etc. Why? Only gods knows!

About 90 hp on hit. Don't talk - show it on video. Considering calculations, even 30 hp on hit was considerably enough, but in practice it was overruled, so theorycrafting isn't good. Actually try it and then say your impression.

About ES chance on ignore stun, i misread you (though that you are talking about different mechanic), ok. But since we have our OPie OPie pantheon, i don't see a need of this. Absolute 100% immune of stun would be impressive though.

5k hp enough by a long shot against any chaos damage? Nope. Atleast not if i don't care about chaos res on gear (which i usually don't). In that case CI is just "quality of life" thing.
And 5k life would be decimated fast by snakes from chimera, or those things in aalluring abyss. Oh, and of course, ignoring that pesky cloud from trio battle is good. I understand that we can live without it, but don't drop it off, like some kind of nonsense.

Don't be angry that someone confront you. You didn't tried it yourself too, isn't it? So... try it, make a video how you can stay in shaper beam or something, and prove my assumption wrong. I would gladly accept mistakes and even will try your build too, cause the more power the better. It's just for now i'm really skeptical. No offence.

"

Keyen wrote:

Edit: A quick example, with trashy stuff. Still 5K HP + 5 K ES:
https://pastebin.com/wXNcbGnA

Unfortunately, that's a unique build that's going to be possible for almost anybody. That jewel is just not going to happen.

For it to me more realistic, you need to go with 1 mod (ES gain on hit) and drop Vitality that limits your flexibility anyway (no mana for Purity with it).

Still, pure gain on hit approach without leech is questionable against bosses. As you can see in my videos, it takes a while to stack enough Icestorms to notice the effect of gain on hit against a single target. And if that target moves it's not going to be good at all. So then you'd have to dodge everything the Hydra does, for example, and that's a different play style.

And then there are the gear issues. The hybrid approach requires too much from the gear: high Int, high ES and high Life. Even if you manage to acquire items like that, there is absolutely no way you can find them with good resists too. You have all negative resists in that example. And fixing the resists would require sacrificing something else.

Hybrid can be good with ideal gear, but it's a lot harder to balance with what's normally available in a new league.

"

Med1umentor wrote:

Don't be angry that someone confront you. You didn't tried it yourself too, isn't it? So... try it, make a video how you can stay in shaper beam or something, and prove my assumption wrong. I would gladly accept mistakes and even will try your build too, cause the more power the better. It's just for now i'm really skeptical. No offence.

Still in leveling. There, lvl 67 (no kaom, no cyclopean no good boots), on T7.
It's just a proof of concept. In the "true build", you have +20% the numbers of icestorms actives, +50% sustain (90 hp/hit and not 60), enfeeble, etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6zf6XYaBPE&feature=youtu.be

As you can see, the true problem is the start of the fight, when you don't have many icestorm, that's why getting as much EHP as possible is the best idea.

"

Kelvynn wrote:

"

Keyen wrote:

Edit: A quick example, with trashy stuff. Still 5K HP + 5 K ES:
https://pastebin.com/wXNcbGnA

Unfortunately, that's a unique build that's going to be possible for almost anybody. That jewel is just not going to happen.

For it to me more realistic, you need to go with 1 mod (ES gain on hit) and drop Vitality that limits your flexibility anyway (no mana for Purity with it).

Right now:


And yes, I know the stuff may be difficult to get (that's why I didn't used good rolls on rares). But you only have to get 245% resists with 5 rares. It's not "that" hard. You also have two 8% all resist very close in the tree if you really need.

And while the stuff may be rare, it doesn't mean it will be expensive. Hybrid stuff is not that used. You can keep a live search.

well as long the watcher jewel is required... it‘s no budget build anymore :-(
at least you cant play this build without this jewel...
the CI version is still way easier to build/start and gear.

So how important is the ES on Hit from the jewel? Can this build reasonably do Guardians and Shaper without it?