Constructive ideas on how to actually (and finally) balance PvP

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Actalo wrote:

Yes yes, finally... my two favorite parrots with one stone.

WTF do either of you know about diversity?

Last time I checked, both of you are basically meta babies or poor clones of better meta baby builds.

I mean, when was the last time either of you gate-keepers built anything what wasn't off-screen and entirely item/char dependent?

Can you even spell melee? It's Em, You, El, El, Aye.

His points are not complicated, or difficult to implement. They (can) have nothing to do with the actual "PvP mechanic" ... indeed, within Sarn, there could easily be an entirely different set of rules to PvP - apart from 1v1.

I apologize, my bias/disgust is showing.

[...]

Even partial ideas are still ideas, and far better than the cheap revisionist eliticisms provided by the aforementioned mollusks who leave their negative slime trail upon everything in order to snare the rest of us in their adhesive self-loathing.

You need to learn the difference between criticism and trash talking. You are so tilted at us for no real reason other than giving criticism (often constructive) that your only argument here is that you hate on us, and your reaction is again poor trash talking in a previously clean thread.

We brought up real concerns about the original idea, and you weren't able to give appropriate response to any of it. Acting for the community is not about bashing the people you hate so only those remain that you agree with, you need to compromise and think about solutions that benefit the most people.


Harley, that approach is also good, it gives some explanation and a vision to Jorge's suggestions to what we could achieve, but I'm worried the implementation would be hard to think of, coordinate, and execute.

There are many recovery mechanics that would need to be revisited, severely tuned down, capped, or straight up disabled. Just from the top of my head: Aegis, Zerphi, Blightwell, Soul strike, Conversion talismans, The surrender (and other life/ES gain mechanics), general life regen stacking and scaling, ES recharge modifier stacking, leech, unique flask stats, flask duration/effect/life recovery modifiers.
And there are even more damage mechanics needing similar treatment like multi-hitting and/or improper T value abilities (aoe overlap, simultaneously triggered stacked traps, mines, CWDT/CWS, CWC, would be a huge list in detail)

Some would require entire new systems, like penalising hits dealt in a too short period of time, a strong diminishing return on regen and recovery of hp, probably a new pvp formula.

Changes like this tuning mechanics towards balance would inevitably cause much higher gear imbalance.

Fokls, it's nice to dream of what the perfect pvp system would be in PoE but let be realistic for a second.

We knows (I mean we are !00% sur) that the devs will never, NEVER, again put some resources to develop PvP in PoE (maybe in POE 2), the only thing we can get (and that is if we harass Chris, Quarl and the others) are values change.

So instead of dreaming of a perfect world were PoE Pvp could be the greatest experience ever, what we should do is list everything with numerical value that need to be change and pray that maybe between 2 mtx design someone will put some of those changes in the pvp folder burried somewhere in the database.

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IceDeal wrote:

Fokls, it's nice to dream of what the perfect pvp system would be in PoE but let be realistic for a second.

We knows (I mean we are !00% sur) that the devs will never, NEVER, again put some resources to develop PvP in PoE (maybe in POE 2), the only thing we can get (and that is if we harass Chris, Quarl and the others) are values change.

So instead of dreaming of a perfect world were PoE Pvp could be the greatest experience ever, what we should do is list everything with numerical value that need to be change and pray that maybe between 2 mtx design someone will put some of those changes in the pvp folder burried somewhere in the database.

"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, make a fat woman your wife"

I'm pretty sure we'll eventually have to compromise and/or adapt.

She may not be as fun to fuck as those manic coke heads in college, but she'll sure as shit have dinner ready.

Every.

Night.

There is no compromise to do because we have nothing to bargain for.

We are just 30 people complaining on a sub forum, we have no values for GGG so why should they cater to us. All we can expect is a bit of pity from to time (like when they nerfed Inquisitor) so we should give them a pity thread where they can pick a few thing from time to time.

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Márkusz wrote:

Harley, that approach is also good, it gives some explanation and a vision to Jorge's suggestions to what we could achieve, but I'm worried the implementation would be hard to think of, coordinate, and execute.

There are many recovery mechanics that would need to be revisited, severely tuned down, capped, or straight up disabled. Just from the top of my head: Aegis, Zerphi, Blightwell, Soul strike, Conversion talismans, The surrender (and other life/ES gain mechanics), general life regen stacking and scaling, ES recharge modifier stacking, leech, unique flask stats, flask duration/effect/life recovery modifiers.
And there are even more damage mechanics needing similar treatment like multi-hitting and/or improper T value abilities (aoe overlap, simultaneously triggered stacked traps, mines, CWDT/CWS, CWC, would be a huge list in detail)

Some would require entire new systems, like penalising hits dealt in a too short period of time, a strong diminishing return on regen and recovery of hp, probably a new pvp formula.

Changes like this tuning mechanics towards balance would inevitably cause much higher gear imbalance.

I think we could take a page from Diablo 2 here and;

- Reduce damage dealt to players by 10x. (And in the case of PoE, make sure every skill has a T value)
- Remove leech from PvP.
- Turn off certain mechanics entirely (like guided arrow's peirce. Or in the case of PoE instant heal items like aegis, zerphi's, xirgil's, etc)


They're not overhauls and they're not complicated to introduce. It's drastic but it would make PvP a completely different game.

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Simplesim45 wrote:

I think we could take a page from Diablo 2 here and;

- Reduce damage dealt to players by 10x. (And in the case of PoE, make sure every skill has a T value)
- Remove leech from PvP.
- Turn off certain mechanics entirely (like guided arrow's peirce. Or in the case of PoE instant heal items like aegis, zerphi's, xirgil's, etc)


They're not overhauls and they're not complicated to introduce. It's drastic but it would make PvP a completely different game.

I'm a pleb, I never played D2 :O

You are getting close to my suggestion asking for addressing the most problematic things first.

Tweaking the formula for a near 90% less multiplier is simple yes, but it would bring the whole list with itself needed to tune down at the defense side, which is a much bigger fix.

With the changes to the % damage gained as mana, perhaps same wording can also apply to other problematic mechanics such as aegis, zerphi etc.

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Márkusz wrote:

"

Simplesim45 wrote:

I think we could take a page from Diablo 2 here and;

- Reduce damage dealt to players by 10x. (And in the case of PoE, make sure every skill has a T value)
- Remove leech from PvP.
- Turn off certain mechanics entirely (like guided arrow's peirce. Or in the case of PoE instant heal items like aegis, zerphi's, xirgil's, etc)


They're not overhauls and they're not complicated to introduce. It's drastic but it would make PvP a completely different game.

I'm a pleb, I never played D2 :O

You are getting close to my suggestion asking for addressing the most problematic things first.

Tweaking the formula for a near 90% less multiplier is simple yes, but it would bring the whole list with itself needed to tune down at the defense side, which is a much bigger fix.

Not necessarily. With damage sticking properly on a target, if you're too invested in defense, you'll still have your health chipped at, and you won't have much of a response. If you're too invested on damage, 1 or 2 fuck ups and you're dead.

We'd see a lot more builds that balance the 2.

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Simplesim45 wrote:

Not necessarily. With damage sticking properly on a target, if you're too invested in defense, you'll still have your health chipped at, and you won't have much of a response. If you're too invested on damage, 1 or 2 fuck ups and you're dead.

We'd see a lot more builds that balance the 2.

I meant the list as the necessary things to allow damage to stick, which is the nerf to all recovery mechanics.

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Márkusz wrote:

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Simplesim45 wrote:

Not necessarily. With damage sticking properly on a target, if you're too invested in defense, you'll still have your health chipped at, and you won't have much of a response. If you're too invested on damage, 1 or 2 fuck ups and you're dead.

We'd see a lot more builds that balance the 2.

I meant the list as the necessary things to allow damage to stick, which is the nerf to all recovery mechanics.

Well it would require 1 or 2 people at GGG to sit down with some experienced PvP players (because there's no fucking way in hell any of their QA knows anything about PvP) and figure out what needs to be tuned down or removed.

So yea, sounds like too much effort for them :(