Lightning Golem Crescendo ♫ All Content / HC Focused / Not Casual-Friendly

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tomatopotato wrote:

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Rhogog wrote:

Was wondering why did you initially chose elementalist over necromancer?

(I don't take it as bashing at all. On the contrary, I appreciate the question/interest :)

Necro starts off with more damage. However, Elementalist can actually surpass Necro damage (including Ascendancy bonuses) with enough Harmony stacked (thanks to the extra golem). This is even more true now that Necro's per-aura bonus got nerfed.

There's a common misconception that the elemental immunity is only good for cheesing Shaper. I would argue the immunity is actually far more significant not because you can kill while dead, but because it makes it easier for you to kill and stay alive. It allows you to focus more on your own survival and/or more golem damage. While a Necro is certainly more than capable of keeping their golems alive versus Shaper/Uber Atziri, he/she will often spend more resources (passive points, gem slots, tactical considerations) to protect their golems because the key endgame fights do absurd amounts of damage, particularly elemental. While the elemental immunity certainly isn't the be all and end all, it provides enough value to make it worth it despite the lack of utility from the other Ascendancy nodes.

That said, the damage from both types are quite close. Despite what you may hear or read elsewhere, neither is egregiously superior to the other, which makes sense since Necro is the master of minions, while Ele is the master of elements. It's fitting that they reach similar power levels when it comes to minions of the elements.

Makes sense, thank you. I still want to do some proper number tests as I feel uneasy with so many seemingly wasted elementalist ascendancy points.

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Rhogog wrote:

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tomatopotato wrote:

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Rhogog wrote:

Was wondering why did you initially chose elementalist over necromancer?

...Necro starts off with more damage. However, Elementalist can actually surpass Necro damage (including Ascendancy bonuses) with enough Harmony stacked (thanks to the extra golem). This is even more true now that Necro's per-aura bonus got nerfed.

There's a common misconception that the elemental immunity is only good for cheesing Shaper. I would argue the immunity is actually far more significant not because you can kill while dead, but because it makes it easier for you to kill and stay alive...

Makes sense, thank you. I still want to do some proper number tests as I feel uneasy with so many seemingly wasted elementalist ascendancy points.

Some rough calculations:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6kgobb/question_how_many_which_golems_to_use_for_damage/djlwziz/

Compare the numbers for ELE@4.1.1 to NEC@4.1 or 5.0

Note the above is from 2.6 for a hypothetical Necro running 4 auras. For simplicity's sake and since the discussion was only about minion damage bonus, the following weren't considered:
- Ascendancy attack/cast speed bonus (which favors NEC)
- DPS of sub-golems (which favors ELE)

With the 3.0 Commander of Darkness adjustment, the hypothetical Necro in the above example:
- loses 10% increased minion damage
- loses 8% increased minion cast speed

Lastly, consider that NEC often try to supplement golem survivability with minion life nodes (like the ones near Herd the Flock). ELE will typically spend these points on more jewel slots instead.

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msterry wrote:

i seem to be having a problem displaying the passive tree, just to confirm.. i should just paste the code to https://poebuilder.com ??

POB is a standalone program. Sorry I wasn't clearer in the guide! Check out the details and download from this thread:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1716360

Hi. First of all, nice build and thanks for the guide. I've been thinking about rolling this build in HC and I see the discussion between necro and elementalist. You seem to hold the opinion that elementalist have the upper hand in DPS, however since I was planning for HC do you think that the necro would have the upper hand there due to the self buffs (specifically the Chaos resist and offerings affecting you).

Also, not sure if it's updated, didn't you mention using Efficiency instead of Increased duration as a link?

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tomatopotato wrote:

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DTBA wrote:

tomatopotato

Do you mind sharing you characters on the forum for us to view?

Or would you rather not ?

Opened. Sorry if it's not very helpful though. I wasn't able to play much over the weekend, so my current character (TomatoAndPets) isn't geared up yet and my testing characters haven't been respecced yet. Let me know if you have any other questions.

I might have one. Do you think its okay to get some harmony's jewels up before going for the anima stone just so your golems don't die that fast.

Or should I just go for the anima jewl straight.

I having a issue with t1 maps. They keep killing my golems. I am going to switch to fire golem tonight for now and see how they do

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Warranx wrote:

Hi. First of all, nice build and thanks for the guide. I've been thinking about rolling this build in HC and I see the discussion between necro and elementalist. You seem to hold the opinion that elementalist have the upper hand in DPS, however since I was planning for HC do you think that the necro would have the upper hand there due to the self buffs (specifically the Chaos resist and offerings affecting you).

Also, not sure if it's updated, didn't you mention using Efficiency instead of Increased duration as a link?

Actually, I wouldn't go so far as to say ELE has the upper hand in DPS. It really depends how many Harmonies you slot. In HC, I think their damage is basically about the same.

re: NEC in HC
NEC is definitely a great choice with the block offering. One thing to consider though is you may or may not need to self-cast on the hard fights to protect your golems. You also need to be relatively near your minions for them to get resists from your auras. This is another reason I prefer ELE, because in some situations I need to stay away from my golems for my own safety (i.e. Uber Atziri or T15 Overgrown Shrine with bad mods). They will remain immune to elemental damage no matter how far I stand from them, so I never have to put myself at risk to protect them. So I guess CWDT-Bone Offering NEC is probably better for mapping and for megabosses I'm not sure. It might be a playstyle thing.

Take my word with a grain of salt though, since I've played far more ELE than NEC. gl ss :)

re: Efficacy
I decided against it. After seeing the level 20 numbers, it's pretty obvious that it can't compete with Increased Duration.

That said, I still need to test Innervate, since Openarl is still mulling over how to work the numbers in PoB:

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Openarl wrote:

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tomatopotato wrote:

Hi Openarl,

Thank you so much for all the work you've put into it. Just wanted to mention that the "Is Innervation active?" calculation doesn't seem to apply to minion damage.

Indeed; it's a rather tricky case to handle, as it's the only case of a buff from a support gem that applies to the minion if linked to a minion skill, so it'll have to wait until I have time to work on non-essential stuff.

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DTBA wrote:

Do you think its okay to get some harmony's jewels up before going for the anima stone just so your golems don't die that fast.

Or should I just go for the anima jewl straight.

I having a issue with t1 maps. They keep killing my golems. I am going to switch to fire golem tonight for now and see how they do

Yup. That's definitely a fine way to proceed. Harmony sometimes spikes in price too, so if you want a cheaper alternative, the Skullhead secutor minion helm works pretty well.

P.S. Rip #1 last night lol :( My first time doing Kitava, got caught in some kind of degen pool right in front of him. Have company coming over for the next week or so too, so I probably won't be able to play much until mid-late August... sigh

Helloes,

I'm playing CI FlameGolemancer this league (better AoE for clearing maps in my opinion), but wanted to post some feedback since your guide actually helped me a lot in developing my build (and I'm still occassionally swapping to lightning golems depending on what I'm doing - or just for a change of looks :P).

I specifically wanted to give feedback on the viabilty of CI this league with all the ES nerfs and all the people crying around it.

First, lets get one thing straight if you decide on going CI: YOU'RE NOT IMMORTAL ANYMORE! (and if you're honest with yourself, the amount of ES available pre-3.0 was obscene and had to be dealt with, one way or another).

Now that the obvious has been stated lets begin (I'm going to write in short, one sentence notes):
- realistic amount of ES you can get early in the league relatively cheap: 6-7k (and this is enough to do most/all content if you know the mechanics of the fight)
- while the ES availability on rare armor has been significantly reduced (as in you will have to wait a bit to see 700+ ES chests appearing), some uniques are actually quite appealing as a result, namely Atziri's Splendour (almost 600 ES, guaranteed resists, easy to (re)color), The Vertex, (on the lower end) Infernal Mantle, Rainbowstride
- Zealot's Oath is really (REALLY) good (this is the 1st time ever I've been using this notable passive, and it feels awesome - I'm currently at 434 ES/sec...check PoB for tree/items)
- After you get 9-10 jewel slots and swap to CI - you can respec Gravepact and Death Attunement passives to get more defenses (and then train the passives back once you level up more)

Here is my PoB link with my current skill tree and items:
https://pastebin.com/Hw8MKApM

(Old PoB link that was originally here when I wrote this) https://pastebin.com/MnbsURDf

Using the above tree I cleared (not cheesing with waiting dead till golems die) everything up to T16 maps (they simply wont drop). I actually killed Core Malachai on a 4link Infernal Mantle while being hybrid with 2kHP and 4k ES.

Feedback and suggestions are welcome, ofc :)

Best Regards,
Palaryel

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Palaryel wrote:

stuff

All I can say is that I agree with just about everything you said :P I touched on very similar sentiments in the Passive Tree section of the guide.

Couple things though, I believe the maximum ES value for a Regalia is like 680-ish now iirc? And I'm unsure about going out of the way to grab regen nodes specifically. My personal preference would be to just get more life/ES nodes and supplement regen with a Sulphur Flask.

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tomatopotato wrote:

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Palaryel wrote:

stuff

All I can say is that I agree with just about everything you said :P I touched on very similar sentiments in the Passive Tree section of the guide.

Couple things though, I believe the maximum ES value for a Regalia is like 680-ish now iirc? And I'm unsure about going out of the way to grab regen nodes specifically. My personal preference would be to just get more life/ES nodes and supplement regen with a Sulphur Flask.

Sulphur flask is certainly an option, though I prefer a granite/jade/stibnite/quartz/quicksilver setup. The regen nodes are optional and up to preference, however we're grabbing that jewel socket either way, so it isn't a long path to the extra regen (+the str/dex on the way helps since it enables more skipping of str/dex on gear).

The highest ES regalia I saw so far on Harbinger was 640 ES (didn't have any other useful stats on it tho xD)

Another note (for those who didn't check the PoB link): I'm using a Marble base amulet, since the implicit gives up to 1,6% life regen per second, and that does get converted from Zealot's Oath as well.

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Palaryel wrote:

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tomatopotato wrote:

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Palaryel wrote:

stuff

All I can say is that I agree with just about everything you said :P I touched on very similar sentiments in the Passive Tree section of the guide.

Couple things though, I believe the maximum ES value for a Regalia is like 680-ish now iirc? And I'm unsure about going out of the way to grab regen nodes specifically. My personal preference would be to just get more life/ES nodes and supplement regen with a Sulphur Flask.

Sulphur flask is certainly an option, though I prefer a granite/jade/stibnite/quartz/quicksilver setup. The regen nodes are optional and up to preference, however we're grabbing that jewel socket either way, so it isn't a long path to the extra regen (+the str/dex on the way helps since it enables more skipping of str/dex on gear).

The highest ES regalia I saw so far on Harbinger was 640 ES (didn't have any other useful stats on it tho xD)

Another note (for those who didn't check the PoB link): I'm using a Marble base amulet, since the implicit gives up to 1,6% life regen per second, and that does get converted from Zealot's Oath as well.

Hi all.

I've been lurking in this thread since 3.0 when I decided I wanted to see for myself how cool and strong a golem build could be. I'm just putting the finishing touches on my level 93 witch in standard after the respec and hope to test drive it tonight or tomorrow. I plan to post my tree and gear in this thread once done for feedback. It's not far off from most others but a bit tweaked for my own liking. I went hybrid and landed on using a strong ES rare rather than my Shavs. More on that when I post later.

In the meantime, I have a quick question about your setup.... you said you went CI but you are using an rare amulet. How are you mitigating stuns? My apologies as I cannot see the POB link as I am on my iPhone and not at home on my PC. Thanks and happy hunting.