Changes to the Labyrinth

I hope in 3.0 the 'labyrinth' becomes a thru labyrinth and do generated every run instead of one layout per day.

If not - I hope you stop calling that presets a 'labyrinth' =\

you should of just removed it, it's nothing more then a cancer to the game and is what made me quit coming back to the new expansions.

With all the negative posts, those who enjoy the lab needs to speak up.

I enjoy it. It is one of the things in the game you actually get rewarded for paying attention and not just netflixing your way though.

For those who have issues with traps. Slow down? Stop trying to use (insert movement skill) to win your way past them. When i run labs with people or to help them get things done, most of the deaths are because they just blinding run through them. Trap mechanics are built around (look for safe spot, then move) not (run through and hope I get lucky). Follow these words and life will be easier.

For those who have issues with Boss fights. He does some mechanic you avoid, then spend 1-3 seconds spamming damage kill.. he does mechanic you avoid ... then spend 1-3 seconds spamming damage skill. Its really not hard again you just have to pay attention.

If you guys can follow this simple guide here, you can quickly go back to your 1 2 3 4 5, right click, movement skill strands.

The problem with Labyrinth wasn't that the earlier difficulties took too long (they didn't), the problem with Labyrinth was that it's just not fun. I can already tell you that someone in your design meeting saw complaints about Lab and said, "Why don't we make it more incremental so that it feels like it's building up to Uber Lab?". That person is dumb.

The trash sections of Lab need to be completely different (eg, removed entirely) because trash and traps aren't very fun and they aren't very challenging. Some people die to them, sure (I have), and it's ended HC runs I'm sure. That isn't a justification for keeping it. Lab would be much better if it was Izaro 3 times, with 3 random challenges and with the random ability for Izaro to summon Argus to help him. The challenges should be more mechanically difficult and deal more with "adding the time" required for GGG to feel good about an Uber Lab run. They also don't need to build on what Izaro can "do", we know he's got giga attacks, the challenges can be more about solving a puzzle while being attacked, or playing some type of memory game. Solving the puzzle moves you to the next fight, solving it without failure gets you the key.

GGG, I do like the change of maze length in early versions. This will make it much easier for new players as the length between boss fights is a significant part of the challenge of the labyrinth.

Personally, though, the only thing that needed to be changed in labs are the boss fights themselves. I would gladly take a removal of all rewards other than ascending in exchange for a significant drop in the challenge of the boss, especially since I find that (as a largely solo self-found player of modest skill) I have to out-level the content by about four acts to reliably beat it and the rewards and enchantments are completely useless by that point. If I got zero loot for a 25% less damaging boss or no active traps in the first two boss encounters it would be a win-win as all I wanted was the class anyway.

edit 2: perhaps players in groups or who aren't self-found are more who you are intending this content for, though. I'll admit I am shooting myself in the foot a bit by not trading (with some exceptions involving some necro gear and an aura helm) and by not bothering to party up.

edit: in case you can't tell, I'm talking about adding an option to reduce reward amounts, not scraping the rewards entirely. Players who want the rewards should be able to opt to pursue them, I just couldn't be bothered. It could be added as an option before each boss room, but I suppose any suggestion that requires more work will have to be weighed against the cost in effort.

Labs suck, if they're here to stay can you at least shorten them down some!


Thanks-

Trials suck - traps suck - I hate them - get rid of them.
Izaro encounters are somewhat interesting despite the difficulty - they should remain.
Enchantments should be worked on so players get some choice instead of one random useless enchantment after working hard to get to the finish. Very anti-climactic as it now stands.

Is the lab hate all about how nasty izaro is? is it the traps? because really don't get it. It's frustrating, challenging, dangerous, can be rewarding, which is exactly how you want it to be, isn't it? I like it for all of those reasons.. Or do people want to just have the ascendancy given to them in hideout?..

I don't think that having to run 4 labs total, 3 of which take 10 minutes tops and have zero threat at endgame.

Genuinely curious. I understand that some people don't find it fun which is fine and to be expected.

ps. great work ggg as usual.

Nice to hear the Labs will stay mostly the same, and will be shorten a bit.

I think Labyrinth is a fun and interesting area, and love the secrets and puzzles in it. Really an out of the box entertaining expansion to the game.

Maybe all the good stuff you can find in Lab could be a bit less powerful/rare so people not liking it would not feel too bad about not running it.

You have this totally backwards. The early labs should prepare you for subsequent ones. If you make them shorter and easier, the lab will simply get more and more frustrating. You wont be able to learn from what you do earlier to help. Your design is going to really piss off players... even more than the current model does.

You really just don't seem to understand that barriers like this to progression are really bad in an ARPG.