Make lab non-mandatory!

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mark1030 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

While you're at it, make Dweller of the Deep, The Marooned Mariner, The Way Forward, Victario's Secrets, and An Indominable Spirit Non-Mandatory too. None of those side quests are necessary but we feel forced to do them because missing 15 skill points is obviously gimping your build. It's boring and unfun.

Are you familiar with the continuum fallacy?

You are implying that non-optional content has no place in this game. That is a very difficult position to defend, either practically (since such content already exists) or theoretically (since Labyrinth gameplay is orthagonal to gameplay found in the rest of the game).

If you want to argue that labyrinth gameplay is orthagonal, then you should concede that even if it was, it no longer is. Because there are traps (trials) throughout the game now, not just in the labyrinth. There are several maps that have them. So I would argue the lab gameplay is not foreign to the rest of the game since it exists in 9 of the 12 acts (75%) plus at least 2 endgame maps I can think of.

If the gameplay isn't orthogonal to that found elsewhere the game, then why all the controversy? (Not its difficulty, for sure: The most difficult part of the Labyrinth is Izaro, and he is not more difficult than Atziri or Shaper--which are not being criticized to nearly the same extent. Furthermore, the Izaro encounters are typically highly praised, even by Labyrinth detractors.)

We can agree to disagree on this necessarily subjective question, but the gameplay is certainly seen as orthogonal by the devs, and the content was created with that intention.

Also, a slight tangent: Traps are not the only thing making it different and/or unfun to many. They aren't even the most important thing, in my opinion.

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Rullegardin wrote:

GGG... Please take the ascendancy points out from labyrinth, so that people who wants to play the ACTUAL game can do so without being FORCED to walk through shitty boring traps

Sorry to bring this up to you, but these shitty traps are part of the ACTUAL game. You just happen to not like it. :@

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Rullegardin wrote:

I have never met a person who enjoyed running lab. If you take the ascendancy points out from lab, then the people who enjoy running lab (do they exist????)

I do, hello!

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Rullegardin wrote:

It just seems so retarded to have something so boring (AND DANGOROUS!!!) as a mandatory way of getting skill points.

Now, this is the point in which you reveal your true intentions (and rustle my jimmies at the same time).
You are simply complaining about Lab requiring skill to complete. You are, quite literally, complaining about Lab being DANGOROUS (sic)... I mean, these git gud posts are incredibly dumb. But to be honest, they are true. :( This is just issue of some people being stubborn, and instead of trying to improve their Lab running skill, they throw an angry tantrum.

This league I'm running a Vaal Pact, Abyssus wearing life based character. I have no regen, I take 40% additional damage. I run Lab just fine. And I do it relatively quick. If I can, you can too.
Good luck.

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Perq wrote:

This league I'm running a Vaal Pact, Abyssus wearing life based character. I have no regen, I take 40% additional damage. I run Lab just fine. And I do it relatively quick. If I can, you can too.
Good luck.

I think low map tiers are boring. They shouldn't be mandatory. I want to jump straight to tier 15+ because I can handle them.

The lab is part of the game. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere, nor does there seem to be any indication that it will be separated from Ascending. It has been part of the game for over a year now. The QQ'ing has been going on since then also. It seems that GGG likes the way things are.

What is it to you if the AC points are to be located outside the lab? You can only ascend once per difficulty level. Do you reroll characters just so you can enjoy ascending again and again in lab?

yeah sucks balls and a large part of the community knows it, but GGG as usual dont give a shit about the community

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mark1030 wrote:

If you want to argue that labyrinth gameplay is orthagonal, then you should concede that even if it was, it no longer is. Because there are traps (trials) throughout the game now, not just in the labyrinth. There are several maps that have them. So I would argue the lab gameplay is not foreign to the rest of the game since it exists in 9 of the 12 acts (75%) plus at least 2 endgame maps I can think of.

Putting traps in a few maps (which one can choose to run or not) or adding trials (which one could ignore were it not for the ascendancy points in the lab) doesn't remotely mean that the lab gameplay is like the rest of the game. And the description of the lab as being "orthogonal" to the rest of the game content comes from a Chris Wilson interview from 2 months ago.

If GGG did want the main part of the game to be like the lab, they could put traps all over the place (the submerged passage would be a good place to start) and see how players react.

please remove labyrinth / make labyrinth non mandatory

The lab is not mandatory, the whole game could be done without ever setting foot in it, as you could before it was even introduced.

Sure it makes builds better (it's intended purpose) and enables other builds, but that dose not make it "mandatory"