Increase Inventory or Change Something? ITEM CREEP

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The_Reporter wrote:

I guess on a hardcore death, one would retain the currency contents of the on-character currency pouch/stash?

That would be a good question and topic of debate. I'd favor that, but since this is also the character's inventory, not sure if GGG would or not. Because when an HC character dies and goes to SC, how is the currency dumped over to the HC stash?

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cipher_nemo wrote:

The inventory was designed when we had 278 non-equipment/flask/jewel items. Now we have 735. So why would you expect the "harder choices" to be more than two times harder now than at launch? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you. I'll try to explain better. You can either pick up those rares, that unique, or those chrome recipe items, but not all of them.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

But your entire model is completely destroyed when you have a group of six people going into a map (or any party size). Because that "next 5 to pick up and sell your junk" becomes zero in a full party, and significantly less in any party. Would you like to run all of your maps with only one inventory worth of loot among the more-than-double number of items we have now? Please explain to people who group all the time that one trip per map is viable for everyone, from casuals to the 0.1%.

While this is true, your chances of getting something much better is exponentially increased in a map with 6 people. It's a trade off and it sounds like you want the best of both worlds.

Define what "viable" means in this context? Why would one be farming inventories of crap while mapping with 6 people?

What about differences in clear speed between 1 person and 6 people? Are you factoring in that you can go through more maps at a much faster pace, eliminating that 5 portal advantage from a single person?

Honestly, I don' think you've fully thought this through.

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ewolow wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

The inventory was designed when we had 278 non-equipment/flask/jewel items. Now we have 735. So why would you expect the "harder choices" to be more than two times harder now than at launch? That doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you. I'll try to explain better. You can either pick up those rares, that unique, or those chrome recipe items, but not all of them.

My argument is that we have more than twice the number of items we had before (ones that are worth picking up and keeping, using, or trading), yet we have the same same inventory. I understand what you're saying, but your argument is based on making a decision of what to pick up, instead of the fact that the decision is now more than double the difficulty it was at launch. So why should the player be forced to change instead of the game's inventory or inventory system being changed?

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ewolow wrote:

While this is true, your chances of getting something much better is exponentially increased in a map with 6 people. It's a trade off and it sounds like you want the best of both worlds.

Define what "viable" means in this context? Why would one be farming inventories of crap while mapping with 6 people?

What about differences in clear speed between 1 person and 6 people? Are you factoring in that you can go through more maps at a much faster pace, eliminating that 5 portal advantage from a single person?

Honestly, I don' think you've fully thought this through.

You're still arguing on the basis that this change to more than double the number of items is all comprised of "crap" not worth picking up. I'm not talking about rares or uniques, I'm talking about essences, div cards, and non-gear items. You keep making the same strawman argument, completely avoiding the facts: same inventory size at launch, but more than double number of NON-crap items added to game.

So what happens when we hit version 6.0 of PoE and have more than quadruple the number of worthwhile items to pick up? Are you still going to argue to have the same inventory size, let alone the same inventory system?

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cipher_nemo wrote:

My argument is that we have more than twice the number of items we had before (ones that are worth picking up and keeping, using, or trading), yet we have the same same inventory. I understand what you're saying, but your argument is based on making a decision of what to pick up, instead of the fact that the decision is now more than double the difficulty it was at launch. So why should the player be forced to change instead of the game's inventory or inventory system being changed?

Why would they change the inventory system even though there is more stuff to pick up? I get what you're saying, I just don't agree with it.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

You're still arguing on the basis that this change to more than double the number of items is all comprised of "crap" not worth picking up. I'm not talking about rares or uniques, I'm talking about essences, div cards, and non-gear items. You keep making the same strawman argument, completely avoiding the facts: same inventory size at launch, but more than double number of NON-crap items added to game.

So what happens when we hit version 6.0 of PoE and have more than quadruple the number of worthwhile items to pick up? Are you still going to argue to have the same inventory size, let alone the same inventory system?

Are you suggesting that in one map run you fill up your entire inventory with maps, currency, essences, and coins?

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ewolow wrote:

Why would they change the inventory system even though there is more stuff to pick up? I get what you're saying, I just don't agree with it.

Ok, then at least we understand each other, even if we disagree. That's fine.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

Are you suggesting that in one map run you fill up your entire inventory with maps, currency, essences, and coins?

It's not just in maps. Take the lab for instance. Between the stash access before fighting Izaro each time, if I complete those entire areas, my inventory can be full of useful items. Not just picking up rares, etc., but actually items worthwhile to sell or keep. If I'm farming the lab, I don't need to worry about this, because I'm not clearing all of the areas. But if I'm there during my normal progression for each character, I will spend that time because 1.) it's enjoyable for me, 2.) high shrine spawn rate, 3.) high breakables spawn rate for possibility of currency drop.

Even aside from that, if we're only talking maps, why would it matter for just one map? If you stop to stash items and/or sell off between maps, it's wasted time. Personally, I'm in no rush and don't care most of the time, but if I wanted to mindlessly farm maps, and picking up all non-equipment items, that inventory can fill up before two maps are done.

The problem is: you're arguing from the perspective of status quo. We all know status quo. The real argument is not whether this is a problem for status quo, but rather why is status quo the only acceptable answer? Why can't we farm a few maps back-to-back and no worry about stashing items on every trip? Not everyone plays the way you do, and there is not "right" or "one" way to play PoE.

This is a topic of "why not?". Why settle for an inventory size that hasn't changed since launch, while everything else has grown?

I somewhat agree on stash space.

With only 4 tabs, it's easy to fill them without stashing a single actual "item".
1. Currency (even if traded upwards)
2. maps, sacrifice fragments
3. Random collectibles, 1: Essences, Leaguestones
4. Random collectibles, 2: quality gems, div cards, talismans
Currency tab feels somewhat mandatory, these days.
Essence tab is more of a "gimmick", but I like the qol of the "upgrade" button.
Div card tab I don't like, I prefer a normal tab.

But our inventory is fine, I think.

Yes, there's 700something different things to pick up, but you don't find them all at once.
I rarely get more than a couple of them per map.
~100 different essences? Only 0-5 per map.
~200 different cards? 1-2 different ones per map.
Etc.
I still have plenty of room to pick up items, and rarely need to use a second portal.

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The_Reporter wrote:

It ain't 2012 anymore!

QFT

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Peterlerock wrote:

Yes, there's 700something different things to pick up, but you don't find them all at once.

That is a valid point. Yet, if you take into account that the almost 735 non-equipment/flask/jewel items are added to the exiting pool of possible drops, that weights the overall average of one of these items dropping. That means in 2017 it's easier to find one of these items than it was in 2013 (official launch year). So we're bound to have more of these items drop. Now that chance is not the 200-some percent increase since it's mixed in with other items and weighted for rarity. But still, it's an increase.

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Peterlerock wrote:

I still have plenty of room to pick up items, and rarely need to use a second portal.

You might, no argument there. And most single instance/map runs I'm the same. But there have been some runs, especially if you factor in lab, where I run out of space. And keep in mind not everyone is picking up the same stuff you and I do. Some people pick up more "crap" than others. Of course we shouldn't be picking up all that crap, but where do you draw the line on crap? If I find just the right rare to sell for 1 or 2c, that's a worthwhile pick up for me. And don't forget about all the gear we pick up during progression, before end-game.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

It ain't 2012 anymore!

QFT

Not sure if time has anything to do with more, but yeah the game has evolved a lot.

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Peterlerock wrote:

Yes, there's 700something different things to pick up, but you don't find them all at once.

That is a valid point. Yet, if you take into account that the almost 735 non-equipment/flask/jewel items are added to the exiting pool of possible drops, that weights the overall average of one of these items dropping. That means in 2017 it's easier to find one of these items than it was in 2013 (official launch year). So we're bound to have more of these items drop. Now that chance is not the 200-some percent increase since it's mixed in with other items and weighted for rarity. But still, it's an increase.

Well the thing is, while there is not many things you find at one specific moment, there are a lot more moments to find things. Just think about what you have on you in a map. You likely have wisdom scrolls and portal scrolls, transmutes and alterations, chances, alcs, jewelers, chromatics, fusing and scourings, coins because they all drop so often or you likely need them in a map, and there is no reason to put them aside because you will find them again anyway. In Breach league you also basically always had all 5 types of splinters on you or at least the 4 except for Chayula, because the chances were high you would find them in a map. You also might find a bunch of maps, a quality gem, an essence. On top of that there is also a lot more uniques dropping, yes they are not worth that much, but many of them sell for half an alc and are often worth more than taking average rares with you. And in this league specifically if you were to run Breach + Essence + Perandus you got a pretty filled inventory just by those league mechanics. Not to mention divination cards.

And Chris even acknowledged that there is more and more things lying around and while it was reasonable to put the decision on the player what he wants to leave, that basically reversed entirely because you are not thinking about what to leave, you are more about thinking if it is even worth picking up anything that is not a high tier unique and just collect the currency. And at the point where it is almost never a good idea to pick up things you might want to think about making some changes. Because if you actually want to loot you have to do a lot of inventory management which takes up more time than the actual map.

Another issue is that at this point the inventory is a major bottleneck in design. Because you cannot make a league or content which includes a lot of common drops like Essence did, because there is simply no space left. So giving the player even just one more row, which would be possible without much effort, because the space is there and you won't need to switch sides which can be annoying too, would be enough in the short run.

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Peterlerock wrote:

I still have plenty of room to pick up items, and rarely need to use a second portal.

You might, no argument there. And most single instance/map runs I'm the same. But there have been some runs, especially if you factor in lab, where I run out of space. And keep in mind not everyone is picking up the same stuff you and I do. Some people pick up more "crap" than others. Of course we shouldn't be picking up all that crap, but where do you draw the line on crap? If I find just the right rare to sell for 1 or 2c, that's a worthwhile pick up for me. And don't forget about all the gear we pick up during progression, before end-game.[/quote]

Well the thing is I also dont need a second portal in most cases but the reason isn't the right one. The reason for this is because I am not picking up anything, because I know if I would do it, it would be a major distraction from playing the game. I usually pick up rings, amulets and belts and once I have a few sets I do one run for the rest of the chaos recipe, but this usually includes doing the map dumping all my inventory in a chest and collecting the items, which means I completly seperated looting and actually playing the game which shouldn't be on purpose.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well the thing is I also dont need a second portal in most cases but the reason isn't the right one. The reason for this is because I am not picking up anything, because I know if I would do it, it would be a major distraction from playing the game. I usually pick up rings, amulets and belts and once I have a few sets I do one run for the rest of the chaos recipe, but this usually includes doing the map dumping all my inventory in a chest and collecting the items, which means I completly seperated looting and actually playing the game which shouldn't be on purpose.

Indeed.

I'd be happy if GGG reduces the item bloat if they choose not to increases inventory size. But to just go along with the status quo and continue adding items to the game for every update, without GGG addressing the problem, is abusive at worse and naive at best.