Lightning Strike
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Every projectiles does 70% of the listed damage. The initial hit also does lightning dmg, 50% of the physical is converted to lightning.
Melee nodes only apply to the melee attack part, not the projectile. One handed and weapon specific nodes apply to both parts. Catalyse apply to both parts, on the lightning damage(so half of the hit+whatever elemental dmg you have from auras/gear) All procs apply to every part. Crit applies to both parts equally, when you attack, it'll roll a crit or a hit then every part of the attack will crit or not(so both melee and all proj crit, or none do). Exception are possible as usual with critical weakness curse. WED will increase all the elemental damage of both the melee and the projectiles. Lightning Pen will work on all the lightning damage of both the melee and the proj. As for your "bug" it's just desync issues, it happens with every skill, it's just the mobs not being where they are shown on your screen. This is noticeable with small aoes such as lightning strike, whirling blades, cleave in some cases, where you visually connect with the monster, but they don't get hit because they're actually standing a bit to the side. Actually hitting where they are standing(which is guesswork) will kill them. Also the projectile might disapear client side but will still hit anything behind if there is a valid target. Your client simply registers a hit and stops the animation but the server doesn't register a hit and continue checking for a hit after. This happens, can't do much about it, it's a general issue. If you use LMP or GMP you'll cover more area so it's less likely to happen since another projectile will hit the target instead. Last edited by PyrosEien on Mar 1, 2013, 1:30:20 PM
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" +1 to that, couldn't say it better. IGN: Darkrox (not my main, just for easy contact)
~ Yes i'm the Darkrox from Runes of Magic - World's #1 Guild Pravum 2009 - 2011 ~ | |
" This has nothing to do with the skill and everything to do with your build and items. " The Lightning damage is converted Physical Damage, so unless your physical damage is 2-2*xxx you need to learn how the skill works. " Those projectiles always hit if your main attack hits. Thier damage is 70% of the damage of the original attack modified by anything that effects projectiles. The mechanics governing Lightning Strike's damage is here About the only flaw in the skill is the way the projectiles travel, as mentioned previously. The suggested fixes, making them ricochet or chain automatically, could make the skill quite overpowered in some instances. To keep it on par with other skills of the same type, without making it overpowered, a possible solution would be to make the projectiles work like the projectiles from Spark but with a few differences. Change them so they no longer travel along the ground. Have the 'lifetime' of the projectiles set so they only travel around 1 screen unmodified. This way you'd still have the range that the skill offers while being useful in tight spaces too. | |
" " How are these two quotes both right? This is what is confusing me. If the nodes apply to the melee part, they automatically increase the lightning strike part right? So that would make Rages statement right and PyroEien's statement wrong. Or does the physical weapon dmg node apply to BOTH the initial hit AND the physical part of the projectile? and does the MELEE dmg node only apply to the initial dmg, while this will increase the projectile dmg, it wont increase the physical part of the projectile after the initial conversion. Is this right? @PyrosEien Thx for the answer btw PyrosEien! The bug you say is a desync.. Okay that is possible, still its weird that when i directly aim my attack at the mob, it hits. So either the mob was (and that would be a very big coincidence) standing left and now gets hit by the left most lightning strike, or something different is going on. While I grant you desync is a possibility it is also possibly a bug right? Even a desync could be considered a bug ;) Edit: spelling Last edited by Alzitar on Mar 2, 2013, 7:26:42 AM
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My statement was wrong.
Sorry :P I'm pretty sure I nailed down the mechanics of the skill HERE, it covers all the damage calcs. I think the most important part of it is where i say that its best to think of each attack firing off two different skills. I relation to knockbacks and stuns based on a weapon type, yes the projectiles are considered an attack by the weapon that you used. So in your case the projectiles would have a chance to knockback. Last edited by Rage09 on Mar 2, 2013, 7:50:54 AM
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@Rage: That's not entirely correct. Base damage for both Physical and Lightning is calculated from the weapon's listed damage. You already added Physical damage modifiers to the Lightning damage portion, which means your final Lightning damage will be far too high.
Similarly, Damage-based-on-X is calculated before Conversion. Because I'm apparently stupid, I made a terrible example build and went through each step of the damage calculation. Behold, a thousand numbers, mining data in the forum's caves! EDIT: shit, I forgot to factor in the Catalyze node :/ Let's say we didn't pick that up, shall we. Example build. -119% Increased Physical Damage with Staves -22% Increased Melee Physical Damage -24% Increased Physical damage with Two-hand Melee Weapons -26% Increased Melee Physical Damage from Strength -95% Increased Crit Chance with Two-hand Melee Weapons Supports: -30% More Melee Physical Damage -70% More Weapon Elemental Damage -30% of Physical added as Fire damage Gear: -30 flat Lightning damage -30% Increased Lightning Damage We use a Staff with 100 listed damage. Lightning Strike converts 50% Physical to Lightning damage, and sports 30% Less Projectile Damage. All the calculations are put in two tags. The first one covers the Melee strike, second, Projectiles.
Spoiler
Melee strike:
100 * 0.3 = 30 Base Fire damage 100 * 0.5 = 50 Base Physical and Lightning Damage 30 flat Lightning damage The Physical portion is: Melee, Physical, Staff, Two-handed. We follow the list of modifiers top to bottom, and start with Increased and Reduced: 50 * (1 + (119/100) + (22/100) + (24/100) + (26/100)) = 145.5 Physical Next up, More and Less. Same types apply. 145.5 * 1.3 = 189.15 Physical The Melee strike deals 189 Physical damage. Next up, the Lightning damage part. It is converted from Physical, so it benefits from Physical damage modifiers. Melee, Physical, Lightning, Staff, Two-hand, (Weapon) Elemental applies. 50 * (1 + (119/100) + (22/100) + (24/100) + (26/100) + (30/100)) = 160.5 Lighting Multipliers; 160.5 * 1.3 * 1.7 = 354.705 Lightning We also have some flat Lightning damage though, so that's not all yet. It is not converted from Physical, so Physical modifiers do not apply. Lightning, Melee, Staff, Two-hand, (Weapon) Elemental. 30 * (1 + (30/100)) = 40 Lightning Multiplicative.. 40 * 1.7 = 68 Lightning damage Additionally, we have that Fire based on Physical damage! It is based-on-Physical, so Physical modifiers apply. Fire, Physical, Melee, Staff, Two-hand. 30 * (1 + (119/100) + (22/100) + (24/100) + (26/100)) = 87.3 Fire Mutliplicative: 87.3 * 1.3 * 1.7 = 192.933 Fire damage. The Melee strike deals 189 Physical damage, (355 + 68 =) 423 Lightning damage, and 193 Fire damage. Nifty!
Spoiler
Now the less than spectacular part, the Projectiles. Why did I decide to do this, geez.
Same Base damage; 50 Physical and Lightning, 30 Fire, 30 flat Lightning damage. The Physical damage is now: Projectile, Physical, Two-hand, Staff. All Melee-specific modifiers are dropped in 'favor' of LS' damage penalty! Woo. 50 * (1 + (119/100) + (24/100)) = 121.5 Multiplicatives: 121.5 * 0.7 = 85.05 That's a lot less impressive than 189, but we get three hits worth of it. Lightning converted from Physical: Projectile, Physical, Two-hand, Staff, Lightning, (Weapon) Elemental. 50 * (1 + (119/100) + (24/100) + (30/100)) = 136.5 136.5 * 0.7 * 1.7 = 162.435 Flat Lightning: 30 * (1 + (30/100)) = 40 40 * 0.7 * 1.7 = 47.6 Lightning damage Fire. Based on Physical, all that jazz: 30 * (1 + (119/100) + (24/100)) = 72.9 Fire 72.9 * 0.7 * 1.7 = 86.751 Fire damage Alright, finally done! Final damage, Melee portion: 189 Physical, 423 Lightning, 193 Fire damage. Projectiles: 85 Physical, 210 Lightning and 87 fire damage, up to three times. The build features a lot of Physical Damage not restricted to Melee-only, but the damage difference is still enormous. The Melee Physical damage support makes the chasm much larger. Also, as you might be able to tell: LS is not that great for Leeching purposes. Last edited by Vipermagi on Mar 2, 2013, 2:57:28 PM
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@Vipermagi
You sir did this because you now are my official hero of lightning strike! Rage thx for your contribution also! | |
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@Vipermagi: umm you do realise they work out are exactly the same don't you? Also I didn't add the physical part to the lightning calc, the numbers are that big cause I didn't forget to add catalyze :P
The only difference between the way we calculated was dividing by half at different points in the equation, in the end it works the same though. I'd show an example but i think this thread has enough math in it already :) Edit: Was going to edit my previous post to colour code the numbers but doesn't seem like the boards support it :P Last edited by Rage09 on Mar 2, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
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It is actually different, and very much so.
50% Inc. Physical, 50% Inc. Lightning. 100 Base Physical. Very simple. Your way: 100 * (1 + (50/100)) = 150 Base Physical. 50% converted to Lightning leaves 75 a piece. Then, Lightning gets another 50% Damage bonus, totaling 75 * (1 + (50/100)) = 112.5 Lightning damage. The correct way gets us 50 base Physical and Lightning. Phys multiplies to 75, and Lightning to 50 * (1 + (50/100) + (50/100)) = 100. This effect exacerbates as you add multipliers, and there's a bunch of 'em. Actually, screw it, I have spare time! I can just use my old numbers and show the difference with that as well. Physical, Increased: 100 * (1 + (119/100) + (22/100) + (24/100) + (26/100)) = 291 Physical, More: 291 * 1.3 = 378.3 Base Physical Damage Conversion: 378.3 * 0.5 = 189.15 base Lightning damage Lightning, Increased: 189.15 * (1 + (30/100)) = 245.895 Lightning, More: 245.895 * 1.7 = 418.0215 Lightning damage In my calculations, I ended up with 354.705. That's a difference of around 15%. Adding in Catalyze would further skew it :P Last edited by Vipermagi on Mar 3, 2013, 12:16:46 AM
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" honestly I am quite sure you didnt get my points. " - It is not possible to enaugh accuracy to make it a valid build to play without RT. problem: if I cant play without RT, it makes no sense to go for a dex/sword build with accuracy rating and critical hits. Instead I could use RT/with sword (what I switched to already now) or even better just RT/with mace. If the only thing I need is Resolute Technique I wonder why there are several accuracy and dex nodes available. nnty! additional problem: it is quite hard for a melee to get decent critical strike chances. compared to freezing pulse: always hits. Easy to get critical strike chance on gerar + some nodes = an always hit ~70% crit chance build is quite common. While melee would end up at 75% hit chance and maybe (??) 15-20% crit chance. Imbalanced? " - you dont play lightning strike and always hit with your main attack. a)use shift and spam lighnings b) 75% hit chance makes projectiles miss 25% is quite high, you dont get much more hit chance on high levels honestly if at all. c)I switched to resolute technique already which helps the situation alot. But referring to the first quote: If the only option I have is to go for RT why the hell are there accuracy/dex nodes? nnty d)there are also somtimes buglike things when monsters are directly in front of you and you still dont hit. In teamgames it oftenly comes to the situation that I stand directly in front of an enemy and do not hit it at all and have to change position to hit a monster thats directly in front of me. Witch comes freezing pulses 2-3 times (1second max) monster is dead while I stood there like 5-10 seconds and just tried to get a hit on this monster :-/ (alot of fun for me at this point). " - you dont get my points at all I didnt say make it chain and op. I said make something about it. Chain can be an option, you could reduce damage or whatever if it is too good then. Its not my job to calculate through a valid and balanced change of LS. but I am sure you'd like to do this. " oh yes lol, this must be the only possible solution, there is no other way at all to deal with things!! After all I want to say that this +1000 life chest is imbalanced too. Finally it will only make sense to play a 2hand (6socket) + this chest build for 80% of builds/classes. This is not what I consider a well balanced thing. finally, I dont even say LS is too weak. What I say its too weak compared to other things - meaning its not balanced well. Go play with a ranger that uses chain etc. It kills screens full of enemies within seconds (on maps). It has the same armor/life as a LS templar but can kill 4 times faster (no joke). Freezing pulse is similar. It is ridiculous. And now dont come with my gear. I got quite decent gear, 6L astral, 98-245phys 1.52 aps +ele dam one hand sword. I got quite good rings ias+phys gloves etc. Its just not viable. Only things viable are: ranger, freezing pulse, 2hand weapon (6socket) +1000hp chest. Boring? I dont wanna play this game in group of 6 peope where 4 of 6 use freezing pulse/op totems (2 witches, 1 maurauder, 1 templar), 1 ranger and 1 is some idiot like me that differs from these two builds. I dont wanna play a game where a marauder gotta go for freezing pulse because every melee skill is ridiculously weak compared to it in all aspects (range,splash,speed). Those ranged guys even can tank quite nice with minions, which is the next problem. Its so easy to kill everything 1-3shot with a ranger behind minions. So viable: minion/totem + freezing pulse(or any ranger) + 1000hp chest + 2 hand weapon. As is, every single class right now should opt for these few things. Everything else: not viable. Do smth about it! So maybe just nerf ranger/freezing pulse/+1000life chest and some other obvious things instead of buffing others that are too weak. But defenitely you gotta buff melee charackters/skills. Its ridiculous. |
