[3.0] ||| Retch - SLArcher ||| [Video] [09/04/17]

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xX999Xx wrote:

I would not try this build, if it lacks the basics of a working concept...
Why would you build "around" the retch at all if you are going to use endless hunger + legacy vinctars/Vaal Pact. This is bollocks...

Next time just do better research before posting.

Like XiaoRenna already said:

Both variations do work greatly, and not just in theory: I played the leg. vinktar over weeks in std. (video) and still playing the vaal pact variation at legacy league.

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kiddrock wrote:

Hi, I got what they seem like your items. I made it the same in your passive tree. But I'm dying in a single shot on t9 maps. What have I done wrong? My items look like this:

Jewels is not like yours, but still not bad.

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kiddrock wrote:

i deleted my charecter. this build shit.

Sad, with a little more patience you could have made it work. But to say it quite clear, the build is not made for downgrading everything to the lowest end:

With only 2 additional primary and no additional secondary arrows you'll have trouble of course. Dying Sun and any enchanted helmet would have been a huge boost. Using belly as a 4-link (kaoms would have been the way more powerful option here, if do not use barrage anyway) and having no anti-bleeding doesn't help as well. A second Vessel of Vinktar as being mentioned at the guide is very important, too and having only 15% conv at the quiver hurts as well. - A 19-20% Quiver isn't expensive. Having no wed at entire setup isn't ideal as well.

Just downloaded your Legacy league character into Path of building program.

Results are not the best:
lvl95
HP - 6163
crit chance - 11.40%
accuracy - 93%
tornado shot dps (fully buffed/flasked) - 159k
life leech - 35k per second
Retch potential here: 35k*2=70k chaos DPS on top of 159k.
oh, and only 3.17 attacks per second...

That`s some low dmg here, unfortunately(

Dude, I`m not blaming you, I`m glad when people making their own builds, but you should try rebuild this one, to achieve better DPS and survivability.

sry for asking stupid questions.

when you have additional arrows on reach, head enchant and dying sun. Does that increase the initial arrow amount of the skill, amount of secondary arrows or both???

as far as i know when placing the shot behind a target you should be able to hit with multiple arrows at once. Now i have not done the testing but assuming your numbers are correct you can probably multiply those numbers by 5 to get a realistic damage output on bosses.

If arrow amount affects tornado shot both on initial and secondary effects then holy crap that is a lot of hits.

lets conservatively say 7 initial arrows that each produce (3secondary + 2 from enchant + 2 from reach) then your talking 49 projectiles. Now obviously all those would never hit but i believe ziggy D tested amount of hits on a video with a similar setup and could hit with 5 arrows per initial hit. So assuming this is correct then your talking about roughly 35 hits of the given damage numbers you elegantly called low dps.

Bear with me. i hate bow builds so my knowledge is limited but to me it sounds like pretty amazing damage unless i missed something really obvious which might be the case.

Just to be clear. i am aware that skills can not shotgun. however secondary skill effects can. So as long as he is not namelocking the target and shooting behind the target it should work. but hey take my comment with a grain of salt as i do not play bow builds.

Haven't checked the calculation, or calculated it myself yet, because, well i just played the build and tested stuff ingame. But i'll calculate the stuff at weekend on my own and will show the results over here. Few things for calculations should be mentioned nevertheless:

The current game has 3 different, relevant scenarios at endgame:

First scenario: Grinding trash (usual white to yellow monsters) up to t16. If you are able to kill those by one-shot, dps (damage per second) isn't really relevant for tornado shot, because attack speed will only benefit the animation of the initial hit. - And the build is easily able to one-shot any trash up to t16, which can be checked at my video (which was a very early, not min-maxed version of the build). At this point movement speed and the coverage becomes way more interesting for grinding matters than more damage per second. The movement-speed of the build is good, but not great for a bow-build and the coverage is great (killing pretty much anything on screen). Quite comparable to all other endgame-bow-builds which do not use queen of the forest (like signal shot). - Plus you could actually and easily make queen of the forest work at my build as well. Haven't tested it though, yet.

My league-build has of course less damage, than my standard-version, which is mostly down to legacy vinktar. 10% more base-leech is quite a huge thing for the build. Nevertheless i am able to one-shot stuff at t16 here as well. If you have followed the thread you may have noticed, the build was standard only first and i played the league just to check, if it's league-viable. - Which it is.

Second scenario: Smaller packs of 3-10 adds at endgame-bosses, like at chimera or shaper, which do have far more hitpoints than usual trash at t16. Killing 3-10 adds is just something very different than killing like 30 adds in poe, because of certain game-mechanics like chain, or primary skills like lightning arrow. And yes, attack speed becomes more important here, because you probably won't be able to one-shot, but something which is way more important for this scenarios is taking advantage of it, being able to control those situations by killing quick and smoothly. These scenarios do benefit the build as well, because you can use it for refilling vinktars to have it up against the boss and tornado shot plus stun-abilitys are like made for these situations.

Third scenario: High hit-point bosses like guardians, uber-atziri or shaper. The build uses barrage as single target skill and not tornado shot here. Even though you can use ts, which isn't bad at all (shown at hydra at my video as an example), you'll be able to sky rocket the single target dps with barrage while vinktars is up (shown at all other bosses at the video). Maybe the shown kill-speed is lowish for some people, dunno, but i don't know any bow build (and i have played a lot) being able to kill those bosses as fast without using a mirror bow, like 450-ex brood twine. The whole build will cost far less at standard, like one-third of it.

... what i want to say: It may be intersting to use tools like path of building, even though i haven't calculated anything on my own yet, like i said. But it's quite important to keep in mind what you are facing ingame, if you are interpreting raw numbers.

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keep in mind what you are facing ingame, if you are interpreting raw numbers.

I could not agree more. seems like these spreadsheet fanatics overlooked pretty vital stuff. Any comments made about damage being bad should be completely ignored as either these people are commenting without actually building it and playing it or simply do not actually know the mechanics behind the skills. But hey what do i know. im a bow n00b.

HOL AND HOI's AOE damage can trigger curse on hit?
So HOA wont trigger, am i right?

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pantxike wrote:

HOL AND HOI's AOE damage can trigger curse on hit?
So HOA wont trigger, am i right?

Yes, right.