Donald Trump and US politics

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鬼殺し wrote:

Anecdotes are just that. For every success story, there are thousands upon thousands of far less glamorous outcomes. My grandfather this, my dad that. Totally small-minded. Any number of factors could have conspired to see their success, hard work notwithstanding.

This is a common failure of the right. They don't understand that most people will work hard and simply never get ahead. It's not that they're doing anything wrong. It's just a fundamental feature of our economic system. A massive number of people are going to be on the bottom no matter how hard they work.

If we have a society structured so that tens of millions of people will necessarily be on the bottom, shouldn't we make sure that they're supported in some way? Possibly by the percentage at the top who will benefit to a truly absurd degree by this horribly unfair system? It seems like an obvious "yes" to me, but then we hit the next problem with the right:

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鬼殺し wrote:

Aim_deep isn't worth engaging with on the topic imo. I think his scornful, derisive attitude towards his very own customers in that other thread made this abundantly clear. He's not exactly a font of empathy.

Conservatives lack empathy and compassion. They also live their lives in fear. Those are two hallmark traits of conservatives that explain much of how they view the world. You can see it in their demonization of minority/other groups (Jews in WWII, Muslims today, gays always, and so on) and their irrational responses to even the most trivial of threats (border wall, Muslim ban, Patriot act, etc.).

Here's an article covering this. There have been many studies on the differences between liberals and conservatives. Those two traits and conservatives holding authoritarian views are some of the biggest distinctions.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I give Trump a 10 for supporting neo-nazis.

Out of 100, maybe? Otherwise you may have the most severe case of TDS I've ever seen. There is no argument that Trump supports neo-nazis that doesn't rely entirely on implications and dogwhistling, because Trump's explicit words have denounced them.

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Jennik wrote:

most people will work hard and simply never get ahead. It's not that they're doing anything wrong. It's just a fundamental feature of our economic system. A massive number of people are going to be on the bottom no matter how hard they work.

Well, yes. Unless the system is rigged such that everyone is average — that is, equality of outcome — then necessarily (about) half of the population receive below average results. Since equality of outcome is an easily defeated strawman, this pretty much means (about) half the people are below average. This isn't a fundamental feature of our economic system so much as it's a fundamental feature of economic systems, as in fucking all of them, including whatever it is you have in your head as a supposedly suitable replacement.

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Jennik wrote:

If we have a society structured so that tens of millions of people will necessarily be on the bottom, shouldn't we make sure that they're supported in some way? Possibly by the percentage at the top who will benefit to a truly absurd degree by this horribly unfair system? It seems like an obvious "yes" to me

It seems like "yes" to me, too, except for that whole "horribly unfair" judgment. It's as if you've somehow convinced yourself those at the bottom aren't currently supported by those at the top in any way, and thus you believe you're actually asking something controversial and rebellious.

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Jennik wrote:

Conservatives lack empathy and compassion. They also live their lives in fear. Those are two hallmark traits of conservatives that explain much of how they view the world. You can see it in their demonization of minority/other groups (Jews in WWII, Muslims today, gays always, and so on) and their irrational responses to even the most trivial of threats (border wall, Muslim ban, Patriot act, etc.).

Here's an article covering this. There have been many studies on the differences between liberals and conservatives. Those two traits and conservatives holding authoritarian views are some of the biggest distinctions.

It's funny how your link doesn't back up your "lack empathy and compassion" claim in any way. The fear thing, sure. But hatred and bigotry? Get outta here with that shit. "Gays always" my ass.

I found this part funny...

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When people feel safe and secure, they become more liberal; when they feel threatened, they become more conservative. Research conducted by Nail and his colleague in the weeks after September 11, 2001, showed that people of all political persuasions became more conservative in the wake of the terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, in an upcoming study, a team led by Yale University psychologist Jaime Napier found that asking Republicans to imagine that they possessed superpowers and were impermeable to injury made them more liberal.

So when people become more aware of what's going on in the greater world around them, when they're shocked out of their little comfortable bubbles of consumerist naivete, the result is: more conservative. In contrast, daydreaming exercises to mentally escape reality so as to live in a fantasy reliably make one more left-leaning according to actual science. Red and blue pills, indeed.

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鬼殺し wrote:

If indeed we're talking hard-wired differences, then just sitting down and talking isn't really an immediate option, is it?

At most, people are simply more inclined toward different beliefs. Good education can fix a lot of the mental errors that lead to conservatism. Simply being exposed to diversity so that you understand your fears are irrational and unjustified is good enough for most people, as evidenced by the higher percentage of liberals in cities.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Still, most developed countries have made it this far with such a spectrum of political beliefs and without the sort of divisive bitterness and violence we're seeing now, so you have to wonder what's changed.

But let's be honest. We're not wondering that at all. Not when the man who is meant to embody all the best virtues of quality of America is on twitter using inflammatory, violent language daily.

The internet and 24-hour news networks (notably Fox "News" (and they've legally argued that they're not a news network, but an entertainment network, so those quotes are justified)) are the main causes. It's much easier to radicalize the right when they can find exactly the sort of hysteria-fuel they need at any time of day.

They used to rely on right-wing talk radio hosts for their insanity. Now they can watch Alex Jones, read Breitbart, and check the headlines at T_D every morning. Not only is it far easier for lies and propaganda to reach them, but more people access it. Huge sections of the country who would otherwise only get their news from actual news sources now exclusively watch right-wing propaganda instead.

Free speech in the information age has turned America's right-wingers into utterly delusional monsters. Any conversation you have with one quickly shows that a huge number of their beliefs are simply untrue. They're even obviously untrue. Good luck convincing them with evidence, though. They're still the section of society who doesn't trust science, news that isn't right-wing propaganda, or any fact that opposes their worldview.

Trump's a symptom of a far greater problem. He's certainly feeding the fire, but it was already a hell of a rager before he came along. We're also not going to put that fire out without some sort of massive changes. I'd start by making the truth count. If we don't hold everyone accountable for the lies they spread, people will keep being turned into delusional idiots.

I have to remind myself to not drink water while reading Jennik's posts. Choking from laughter is a serious threat.

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鬼殺し wrote:

violent language

No such thing. Even coercion is remarkably different from violence in that it threatens violence instead of being it.

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Jennik wrote:

conservatives holding authoritarian views

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Jennik wrote:

Free speech in the information age has turned America's right-wingers into utterly delusional monsters. Any conversation you have with one quickly shows that a huge number of their beliefs are simply untrue. They're even obviously untrue. Good luck convincing them with evidence, though...

We're also not going to put that fire out without some sort of massive changes. I'd start by making the truth count. If we don't hold everyone accountable for the lies they spread, people will keep being turned into delusional idiots.

My, how awfully conservative of you.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

I have to remind myself to not drink water while reading Jennik's posts. Choking from laughter is a serious threat.

You don't choke on liquid while watching Fox News?

I don't watch Fox News tbh.

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Xavderion wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

I have to remind myself to not drink water while reading Jennik's posts. Choking from laughter is a serious threat.

You don't choke on liquid while watching Fox News?

I don't watch Fox News tbh.

With one exception, I'd avoid imbibing if you ever sate your curiosity.