[2.6] Atmotion's 100% fire 'Xogama' Cyclone - Fun, Easy, Cheap, Fast, Endgame Viable (No 5-6L req!)

I did some damage testing on my six socketed Ngamahu's Flame (without buffs) and these are the outcomes:

I always kept GMP, Fire Penetration, WED and Conc. Effect in the socketed setups since they are the most essential for this build.
The two remaining possible support gems could either be:
1. Elemental Focus + Added Fire Damage
2. Added Fire Damage + PPAD
3. PPAD + Elemental Focus

The DPH (damage per hit) results, in the same order, are:
1. 7010 DPH
2. 6956 DPH
3. 7207.5 DPH

The best possible gem combination are therefor the following:
GMP + Fire Penetration + WED + Conc. effect/iAoE + PPAD + Elemental Focus

Really interesting build! Have you considered using Slower Projectiles? Assuming it'd keep the bursts closer to the cyclone. Nice more multiplier, and likely would help on bosses in particular. Dunno how much itd affect overall clearspeed though.

It's pretty funny how the build has 2 active skills you use, really. Cyclone and Leap Slam.
Not counting stuff that stays up like auras and the golem.

Anyway, enjoying it a lot so far, but I have a question. Are we 100% sure point blank works for this?
Since point blank reads "Projectile Attacks deal up to 50% more Damage to targets at the start of their movement, dealing less Damage to targets as the projectile travels farther"

dealing less damage as the projectile travels farther.
Is that solely distance related or a "towards the end of their movement" thing?

Since molten burst only hits once it drops on the ground, it hits at the end of its movement. So the question I have is whether point blank is 100% only about the distance of the projectile hit vs your location or whether it's about the .. how should I say.. relative distance the projectile traveled compared to how far it could travel at max.

"

zankioh wrote:

It's pretty funny how the build has 2 active skills you use, really. Cyclone and Leap Slam.
Not counting stuff that stays up like auras and the golem.

Anyway, enjoying it a lot so far, but I have a question. Are we 100% sure point blank works for this?
Since point blank reads "Projectile Attacks deal up to 50% more Damage to targets at the start of their movement, dealing less Damage to targets as the projectile travels farther"

dealing less damage as the projectile travels farther.
Is that solely distance related or a "towards the end of their movement" thing?

Since molten burst only hits once it drops on the ground, it hits at the end of its movement. So the question I have is whether point blank is 100% only about the distance of the projectile hit vs your location or whether it's about the .. how should I say.. relative distance the projectile traveled compared to how far it could travel at max.

It is definitely worth grabbing! The same question appeared for Molten Strikes projectiles a few years ago which is essentially the exact same thing as Molten Burst. Here are some earlier posted explanations from Mark_GGG and other users:

"

The projectiles travel a random distance between 5 units and 20 units, with the latter distance being affected by AoE increases (the minimum distances is always 5). Point Blank gives a 50% damage bonus only until range 10, which would thus cover only a third of the projectiles with no AoE increase.

"

To clarify this for people who need clarification:
Past 10 units, Point Blank's bonus scales down linearly 2% per unit, until reach it reaches 0% more (same damage as without Point Blank) at a distance of 35 units. This means Point Blank on Molten Strike and 0% increased AoE would be an average increase of about 43% more damage, at always at least 30% more damage.
Mark said "with no AoE increase" because increasing AoE radius allows projectiles to travel further than 20 units. So if you have % increase AoE, Point Blank becomes less effective. With 40% increased area of effect, Point Blank gives an average of 35.75% more damage, and always at least 14% more damage.
Conversely, if you have reduced Area of Effect (through Concentrated Effect), Point Blank becomes more effective; assuming -30% AoE, Point Blank gives an average of 48% more damage, and always at least 42% more.

"

Bassemannen wrote:

Big post

Hey, thanks a lot for the explanation. So point blank is indeed good for this skill.
But I see it's even better if you don't use increased aoe effect if I understood that correctly, huh?
Has anyone done some tests on whether using a socket on inc aoe is truly worth it, then? Would it perhaps be more worthwhile to always use conc effect or maybe switch that socket out to something else entirely? Maybe slower projectiles?

- - -


Something else (and maybe more for HC people), how do you guys feel about http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Red_Nightmare

The chaos damage conversion aside (avatar of fire), I find the effect to be pretty interesting.

Look at this spot:


I have circled the jewel slot and all nodes that would apply.

That would be a whopping 41% chance to get an endurance charge on kill if you took all of them. 29% without the 12% fire node to the left of diamond skin which is a bit annoying to get to. Especially considering we can't really fit an enduring cry in the build, that seems very strong.
I'm not sure we would get the block chance from the jewel, no idea if we'd be allowed to block with just a 2handed weapon. In that case we could just use the weaker http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Red_Dream

Thoughts?

"

zankioh wrote:

"

Bassemannen wrote:

Big post

Hey, thanks a lot for the explanation. So point blank is indeed good for this skill.
But I see it's even better if you don't use increased aoe effect if I understood that correctly, huh?
Has anyone done some tests on whether using a socket on inc aoe is truly worth it, then? Would it perhaps be more worthwhile to always use conc effect or maybe switch that socket out to something else entirely? Maybe slower projectiles?

It is a question of clearing large packs versus single targeting bosses which is all up to what you feel is necessary. That is why you often use Increased Area of Effect when clearing maps and then swapping that particular gem out for Concentrated Effect for bosses or other difficult monsters.
What makes Concentrated Effect so extremely powerful with this build is that it not only gives us the 59% more damage, but also increases the average damage gained from Point Blank as mentioned in my last post, which gives us an overall damage increase of 59% more + 20%(about) more damage, and that is insane.

Slower Projectiles will never be worth using in this build. The less projectile speed doesn't affect us positively in any way. It will only make the projectiles hit the targets at a slower pace. And the 29% more damage it potentially gives us is less than what other support gems already gives us.

I really want to use this on a raider, but I can't seem to see anyone else trying it. Here's a quick tree I planned that's most likely poorly done.

Great build, a ton of fun!
Keep up the good work :)

How is this comparing to a traditional cyclone build with atziri's disfavour when it comes to end game maps (tier 13+)? Seems like this build is super budget to push into yellows and early red maps but falls off from there.

"

Demonzu wrote:

How is this comparing to a traditional cyclone build with atziri's disfavour when it comes to end game maps (tier 13+)? Seems like this build is super budget to push into yellows and early red maps but falls off from there.

my approximations show that (in best case scenarios for both weapons)
if a boss is poison\bleed immune (chimera\hydra) then ngamahu (with best possible setup) is better

if a boss is not poison\bleed immune then disfavour is better

hard to tell exactly bcoz too many things to consider

first of all, I was not able to find all bosses's fire resistance - if someone could help me i would greatly appreciate

also, for example, on some bosses you can consistently apply "covered in ash" (which lasts like 4-5 secionds), on some you can't

some bosses move more (therefore, taking more damage from bleeding), some less

also, the difference between 6l ngamahu and 6l disfavour is like 15exalts right now on breach therefore allowing the ngamahu setup have better equips

the best possible option is to have both obviously:))