[2.6] Atmotion's 100% fire 'Xogama' Cyclone - Fun, Easy, Cheap, Fast, Endgame Viable (No 5-6L req!)

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Bassemannen wrote:

Hey, I read that you recommend the Flammability curse instead of Enfeeble for a higher damage output. I don't think you have taken Projectile Weakness into account then, since it will give 44% more damage for this build at gem level 20 (29% more damage at gem level 5 for CWDT). If you have the dexterity requirement (155 @ level 20) it is clearly a superior damage option over Flammability.

Cyclone isn't a projectile and is 100% fire. Count that into the formula and Flammability is way better. ;)

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Xavathos wrote:

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Bassemannen wrote:

Hey, I read that you recommend the Flammability curse instead of Enfeeble for a higher damage output. I don't think you have taken Projectile Weakness into account then, since it will give 44% more damage for this build at gem level 20 (29% more damage at gem level 5 for CWDT). If you have the dexterity requirement (155 @ level 20) it is clearly a superior damage option over Flammability.

Cyclone isn't a projectile and is 100% fire. Count that into the formula and Flammability is way better. ;)

I don't think you quiet understand the build concept yet. The skill inside the weapon is the skill that is doing the damage, cyclone is only there to proc it. The skill in the weapon is a projectile.

I`ve been trying out a very similiar build on Marauder, Chieftain. I have to thank you for bringing to my attention, that this axe works like the Whispering ice and/or Cospri's! This build is the most fun i've played so far!

But i made some things different and i'm quite satisfied with the results and i wanted to share for everybody else not a Duelist:

I do use Kaoms.
The Damage and Safety it offers is unparalleled(?) by any other armour.
If you are not a Slayer, a good leech comes pretty costly (even with the inate 1% from Chieftain), so having a bigger life pool to buffer for your flasks to kick in is very welcome.
Even if you go Berserker, who gets an abundance of leech, you might want it, due to the fact you have no easy (Chieftain) way of getting endurance charges to help mitigate the big hits (from +10%dmg taken)

4 links are plenty
I've been trying around alot, and i noticed, to keep up Elemental overload, i didnt need Inc. Crit nor Added Accuracy. I sit at a 82% Chance to hit in T12 maps and i have EO up pretty much all the time, only with the 2 Templar Accuracy/Speed-Nodes and 100Accuracy added via gloves.
So we can instead just put more utility in - I run Inc. AoE + Fortify + Faster Attacks.

Gripped Gloves with Essence of Insanity
Thats my so to say 5-Link for Cyclone. All i need is Cyclone to hit as much as it can. With Faster attacks + those gloves + Devotos + tree I'm at 4,98 Attacks per second.

Since there seems to be a Cooldown to Molten burst (something like 0,5 - just estimated with a gut feeling), the biggest multiplier to damage is to trigger it right after it comes off Cooldown. While clearing packs you'll trigger it right away anyway - vs bosses i felt that Faster Attacks gave me more Consistency in comparison to added Accuracy. I didn't do the math, so i'd be very happy if someone proved me wrong on this.

Added fire vs PPD
PPD is strictly better for me, because i have no active skill gems in my Axe. You might prefere Added Fire if you use an active Skill socketet in your Axe since PPD doesnt add to the damage (and leech) of cyclone, while added fire does.
If you use your Main skill somewhere else, go PPD over added fire.

Flammabilty vs Projectile Weakness
This is a bit more complicated. An important note to take is, that we have 65%+ of Fire Penetration (even 75+ as Chieftain). From the Wiki article on Penetration we know that Penetration works best on highly resistant enemies. I assume there are on monster Resistances lower than 0 and higher than 75 (capped) prevalent in the Game. So it might be intuitive to say, Flammability counteracts in some way with our Penetration and Proj.Weak would be better.
While i did the math for it, i figured its situational:
The total, effective, damage multiplier we get from Penetration + Flam. ranges from 2,1 (0 mob res) to 5,4 (75 mob res) and again down to 3,6 (120+ mob res). So best case is, we hit someone with exactly 75% fire resistance.
The effective damage from Penetration + Proj.Weak. ranges from (1,65 to 3,6)x 1,44 = 2,38 to 5,18.
We need to add though that the 1,44 multiplier from Proj.Weak is misleading, since we already have increased fire damage taken (which add additively) on Xoph's amulett (20%), so it's effectily lower (namely 1,36 instead of 1,44 - so only 94%effective). I wont include that in the calculation above though.

So to summarise: It depends on the Monster. Trash mobs take more damage with Proj.Weakness, Monsters with around 75% Resists "benefit" more from Flammabilty. Highly resistant (>120%res) take more from Proj. Weakness.
Chose your preference.
I take Flammability because i already have it leveled. But that is pure laziness beyond and reasonable numbers.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Thanks again for the build idea!
If we really need HoA and Hatred ill check after beeing a berserker. So far i need to write less and spin more!

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Bassemannen wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

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Bassemannen wrote:

Hey, I read that you recommend the Flammability curse instead of Enfeeble for a higher damage output. I don't think you have taken Projectile Weakness into account then, since it will give 44% more damage for this build at gem level 20 (29% more damage at gem level 5 for CWDT). If you have the dexterity requirement (155 @ level 20) it is clearly a superior damage option over Flammability.

Cyclone isn't a projectile and is 100% fire. Count that into the formula and Flammability is way better. ;)

I don't think you quiet understand the build concept yet. The skill inside the weapon is the skill that is doing the damage, cyclone is only there to proc it. The skill in the weapon is a projectile.

I get that the projectiles go off projectile damage, but I had no idea that the cyclone itself did no damage.

This build is the most fun I've had in POE in years, thanks for bringing this axe to my attention.

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I`ve been trying out a very similiar build on Marauder, Chieftain. I have to thank you for bringing to my attention, that this axe works like the Whispering ice and/or Cospri's! This build is the most fun i've played so far!

you are very welcome. thanks for bringing us some info about this build as a different class entirely. very much appreciated!

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Edit: belly is a bit overpriced right now (triple or quadruple the normal price), and I wonder how much the amulet's price is going to fluxuate if at all.

don't worry about getting a belly. save currency until it is low enough for you to buy. just use a rare armour or evasion based chest with at least an 80+ life roll in the mean time.

and again you don't even need the amulet to play this build up to mid tier maps. just get the avatar of fire keystone (only 3 extra passives) while saving up for the amulet.

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Bassemannen wrote:

Hey, I read that you recommend the Flammability curse instead of Enfeeble for a higher damage output. I don't think you have taken Projectile Weakness into account then, since it will give 44% more damage for this build at gem level 20 (29% more damage at gem level 5 for CWDT). If you have the dexterity requirement (155 @ level 20) it is clearly a superior damage option over Flammability.

yeah that might be alright. as far as i see it, i'm not changing out of enfeeble. the defense benefit is too big to throw away. damage is already good enough for red maps. will see about projectile weakness if it is better, but i do not like the knockback effect on it. it's very counterproductive when you actually want the mobs to be grouped together, so that many of the projectiles hit them at once.

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I also think that Physical Projectile Attack Damage should be a better option than lets say Elemental Focus, since it doesn't come with any downsides. It could even replace Added Fire in a 4-5 link.

this might be true, will test it out see what works, and update the build accordingly. you have to take into account also that added fire gem works wee with the WED and the rest of the gems/supports with it. so damage numbers might end up being about the same between added fire and PPAD. i had a PPAD in my old 6 socket version without GMP, but i guess this is just my oversight and forgot about the gem. as far as it comes to the downsides of Elemental Focus gem, there are basically none. the ignites in this build would not do any significant damage anyway. will test, will let you guys know! :)

Thanks for the build. Though my tree isn't good enough yet, i did a respec from my old build and have some useless (at least i think so) crit nodes, so some respeccing is still required. Also im a berserker, any ideas what would be the best choice for that build in terms of ascendancy? Mostly im interested is Rite of Ruin any good for this? Atm i have learned it, but not sure if i should learn Cloaked in savagery instead, or just take this sweet aspect of carnage.

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Sunw1sh wrote:

Thanks for the build. Though my tree isn't good enough yet, i did a respec from my old build and have some useless (at least i think so) crit nodes, so some respeccing is still required. Also im a berserker, any ideas what would be the best choice for that build in terms of ascendancy? Mostly im interested is Rite of Ruin any good for this? Atm i have learned it, but not sure if i should learn Cloaked in savagery instead, or just take this sweet aspect of carnage.

personally? go for defensive ascendancies first. get the 'more damage' later. you can afford to do it. also i think it might be better to go either Cheiftain or even Juggernaut for some nice tankiness, but hey you do what feels right. am i right? :)

@Atmotion, do you still think slayer is the best ascendancy for a build like this? Been seeing chieftain thrown around a lot and seems like it provides a lot of damage and the free endurance charges seem pretty strong for a build like this. The only downside is giving up the slayer AoE, but the damage and leech seems similar, with endurance charges being the plus?

Would like your genuine opinion on which ascendancy is the best for a build like this or the tradeoffs of each.

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Anbokr wrote:

@Atmotion, do you still think slayer is the best ascendancy for a build like this? Been seeing chieftain thrown around a lot and seems like it provides a lot of damage and the free endurance charges seem pretty strong for a build like this. The only downside is giving up the slayer AoE, but the damage and leech seems similar, with endurance charges being the plus?

Would like your genuine opinion on which ascendancy is the best for a build like this or the tradeoffs of each.

i really like the slayer for both survivability and damage, and as i have stated many times before, the 20% culling strike and pretty much 100% uptime on Onslaught buff when mapping is hard to beat. also the 20% more damage if you have killed recently is constantly up when mapping with this build.

on top of that no other class gets a similar bonus to the leech rate which you only get as a slayer (or from the tree). you can have as much leech as you want, but if your leech rate is low it won't make a difference in keeping you alive against spike damage. before i got the brutal fervor ascendancy i was struggling a bit with the leech keeping me alive in red maps (specially in breaches). now it just feels really nice and safe to face tank most things.

the endurance charges are a nice bonus, but we already have a ton of armour in the tree / gem + basalt flask to top it off at 80%+.

chieftain version seems alright to me, but i personally like slayer better for what i aim to do with it, which is kill bosses (atziri/ubers/shaper).