Primordial Golemstones - Awesome? [Y/N]

Well I can always re spec it to Golemancer after next huge update

stack eminence, get the chaos golem buff effect helm enchant and be an elementalist and you can get a crazy high phys% reduction!

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allana wrote:

stack eminence, get the chaos golem buff effect helm enchant and be an elementalist and you can get a crazy high phys% reduction!

note that Chaos Golems are not Elemental Golems, and thus do not qualify for Liege of the Primordial's buff. Chaos Golem's protective effects can only be scaled with helm enchantment and Eminences, and the Chaos Golem's helm enchantment is capped at 100%. With that enchantment and three Eminence jewels (190% buff effect), you'd be up to 11.6 damage reduction from a level 20 Chaos golem, or 14.5 reduction from a level 22+ Chaos golem (5 base damage reduction). Those are both actually pretty significant values, especially in conjunction with other damage reductions, but there's a limit to how bonko you can get a Chaos Golem's buff to go.

Unless you stack twelve Eminence, at least.
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...Honestly, I'm curious now. Let's run the math on that.


[Chaos Golem total buff] = [base effectiveness] + [12* Eminence (0.3)] + [Helm enchantment]

(Level 20) 4% DR * (1 + 12*0.3 + 1) = 22.4% PDR
(Level 22+) 5% DR * (1 + 12*0.3 + 1) = 28% PDR

Those are less impressive numbers, given how contorted and bad a tree with twelve jewel sockets tends to be. The level 20 golem (though I'll admit, anyone doing this is not going to be using level 20 Chaos golems) is barely better than a bog-standard Fortify buff. You expend nine jewel sockets to get only just barely more than double the effectiveness of your Golem buff overall at level 20, and less than double effectiveness at level 22+. Seems like a tremendous waste when you could just grab Fortify somewhere and wear a Belt of the Deceiver or such. With a level 22+ golem, each Eminence jewel is worth 1.5% PDR (5 * 0.3 = 1.5), meaning you'd need fourteen Eminence jewels on a level 22+ golem just to match the effectiveness of Fortify through Chaos Golem defensive buff alone.

That's a no-go, Jenny.

Three Eminence and the Uberlab helm enchant, however, could be a very nice trick to stack on top of other defenses if for whatever reason your build is interested in a big flock of Chaos golems. PDR is just like resistance - the more of it you have, the closer you get to 100%, the better each new point of it gets. Eminence granting golem attack/cast speed also lines up with an Added Chaos-y golem build a'la suggested earlier in the thread. Added Chaos Damage, United in Dream's Envy aura (if you're bloody rich, which you mostly have to be to run Golemancy anyways), Lesser Poison Support to get 100% minion poison chance and also more flat chaos damage...that might be an interesting hipster build, though I doubt it'd be pulling two-second Shaper runs any time soon.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

In case it matters to your theorycrafting

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1453R wrote:

Primordial Harmony Cobalt Jewel
Golem Skills have [23%] Increased Cooldown Recovery (golems use their own inherent skills more often
Golems have 15% Increased Cooldown Recovery (you can resummons golems faster)

You have those the wrong way around. The first stat is granting cooldown recovery to your Golem Skills (the skills you have with the "golem" tag - e.g. "Summon Flame Golem" is a golem skill).
The second stat is saying your Golems (the fancy minion dudes you summon with the aforementioned skills) have increased cooldown recovery, which will thus apply to all skills they have (at least, the ones with cooldowns).

Sorry for the necrobump, but I believe this deserves some re-examination.

Another user on the forums, Shiverwarp, recently hypothesized that

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Shiverwarp wrote:

Magma Ball (the Flame Golem version of Magma Orb) works on a 3-charge system (similar to Desecrate, Frost Wall, etc.) and that the first stat [Golem Skills have 20-30% Increased Cooldown Recovery Speed] allows you to resummon golems faster AND reduces the cooldown for various golem abilities. (paraphrased)

After doing some testing, I'm inclined to agree with Shiverwarp and I also feel this makes sense from the wording of the Primordial Harmony text. It makes things consistent with Support Gems as well. For example, if you link Faster Casting to your minions, they will both cast faster and be cast faster.



TL;DR
Pay attention when buying/selling Primordial Harmony. All stats on the jewel matter.

Special thanks to Shiverwarp for not taking public opinion/belief at face value as I mistakenly did.

Note, it's not my intent to single out Mark at all. Perhaps he was being coy with mechanics-related information or maybe something was just overlooked. Shout-outs to GGG for even taking the time to communicate that kind of stuff to us players.

Would you believe it is possible that Shiverwarp is wrong and he wrote that by mistake?

And no, wording is clear - YOUR golem skills have cooldown recovery
YOUR golems have cooldown recovery.

Can't quite look up your tests tho, not now.

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Perq wrote:

Would you believe it is possible that Shiverwarp is wrong and he wrote that by mistake?

Yes, and I was quite skeptical at first. But he/she provided pretty clear evidence that something was up and changed my mind.

To be fair, when I wrote this thread upteen years ago, I got my own wording and facts all manner of wrong. Mark corrected my wording, he didn't give an in-depth breakdown of the effects of the Primordial golemstones.

Also not the first time this thread has been Necromance'd, so hey.

The charge-recovery trick is an interesting discovery and makes me wonder what actually provides better DPS, especially given how disgustingly expensive Might tends to be. Nice find, thanks for bringing it up.

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Perq wrote:

And no, wording is clear - YOUR golem skills have cooldown recovery
YOUR golems have cooldown recovery.

Actually, I just looked at the jewel to confirm. It doesn't say "Your" anywhere.

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1453R wrote:

Mark corrected my wording, he didn't give an in-depth breakdown of the effects of the Primordial golemstones.

The way he corrected your wording though clearly invited confusion. I can only assume he was super busy that day and didn't think it through or there's some sort of (unofficial?) policy to keep details like this somewhat obscure.

Also yes. The GGG team likes leaving nuggets of the game unexplained for inquisitive players to find on their own. But yeah. Maybe a bug report, maybe an undocumented feature? Maybe a bug they'll decide post-report is actually an undocumented feature, since it seems pretty useful this way?