Scorching Ray Skill Gem Mechanics

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Tomikxx wrote:

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1453R wrote:

Scorching Ray likely won't have the 'Duration' tag, and if it does it would probably only be for its fire resistance debuff. Inc. Duration won't scale the damage directly as it doesn't increase ramp-up speed. The best you can hope is that it would increase the burning duration left on foes not directly in the beam and/or the fire pen effect.

its already confirmed by GGG that it will have duration tag, and ofc it will not be for its fire resistance debuff but for duration of how long will enemy burn, so I believe that rapid decay will work as "more" damage

The same way Rapid Decay works* as 'More' damage for Righteous Fire?

The spell deals Burning degeneration damage while an enemy is in the beam. The damage lingers very briefly on enemies outside the beam, but the clear intent of the skill is "hold beam on target for damage". As Righteous Fire demonstrates, Degeneration is not necessarily Damage Over Time, insofar as the game code is concerned.

It's possible that Rapid Decay will work as a 'More' for Scorching Ray, but I would not count on it. I would be prepared for the 'Duration' tag on SR to be for the fire pen debuff, and simply be pleasantly surprised if Rapid Decay works. Even if RD doesn't work, you've got Elemental Focus and Controlled Destruction both as 'More' gems, which is one 'More' gem higher than a lot of skills get.

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Raye wrote:

Or as Mark says

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Gem supportability in cases like this is determined by the ability to apply the penalty, not the bonus.

This is the big one, and why I'm not convinced RD will function the way you're assuming it will for this skill. For the most part, Rapid Decay's penalty does not apply to Scorching Ray, as Scorching Ray has an indefinite burn time the exact same way Righteous Fire does when it's being held on target - theoretically, at least. It's not "stack a discrete DoT repeatedly on the target while it's in the beam", it's "target takes degeneration damage while in the beam, which intensifies over time". Nothing in the descriptions we have states that Scorching Ray's primary damage has a discrete duration, which is the primary requirement for Rapid Decay to apply.

It has a lingering burn, which Rapid Decay may or may not affect, and it has a stacking fire penetration effect that likely does have a discrete timer.

If the skill does 'intensify' its degeneration by stacking a discrete DoT effect with a duration longer than its recast time (which would mechanically do what Scorching Ray is designed to do, so it's a possibility), then Rapid Decay would apply. If it intensifies its degeneration some other way and only applies anything with a discrete timer when it shifts off of a target/stacks fire pen, then Rapid Decay won't apply to the main damage, but only to the lingering burn if anything.

I'm simply cautioning one to plan on Elemental Focus and Controlled Destruction first and take Rapid Decay as a pleasant bonus if it works, rather than for-certain planning on RD and then having one's plans upset when the skill comes out and RD doesn't function the way it's theoretically supposed to.

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1453R wrote:

If the skill does 'intensify' its degeneration by stacking a discrete DoT effect with a duration longer than its recast time (which would mechanically do what Scorching Ray is designed to do, so it's a possibility), then Rapid Decay would apply.

That's what they said in the news post, or something like that, hell if they were terribly clear. If they don't change their mind I can see both increased duration and rapid decay as good support choices. I suppose making it apply a stackable DoT would be the easiest way to do it.

Anyway, what I expect from this skill is to be popular with trappers, as they often have boss killing problems. Unless I missed something, the only effect of cast speed is faster sweeping, so if you use the ray as a boss killing supplement the lack of cast speed will be a non issue.

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Vipermagi wrote:

The DoT doesn't need a Duration for Rapid Decay to apply - the Skill needs to have a Duration. RF's DoT does not have a duration, but an RF Spell Totem does deal more damage with Rapid Decay linked.

Similarly, as far as we know Scorching Ray will have a modifiable Duration; whether that is only the Fire Res reduction (not Fire Pen, worth noting), or the lingering Damage as well, we don't know. Either way, Rapid Decay will link up, granting a More-multiplier to any and all Damage over Time dealt by SR.

Hn.

That seems like rankest horsedung, given how many other skills get cut out of otherwise-useful supports because they don't work in quite the way GGG likes. Chief among them a number of skills Rapid Decay doesn't work with, and how Melee Splash doesn't qualify a skill for Area modifiers. Nevertheless, all right. Good to have the clarification, I suppose.

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1453R wrote:

That seems like rankest horsedung, given how many other skills get cut out of otherwise-useful supports because they don't work in quite the way GGG likes.

It makes perfect sense, you turn on a gas stove and spend the tank in a day, opening the valve more to get higher temperature will spend it faster. Boosting the spell effect will burn the energy you invested in a shorter amount of time. Pure physics, and they dare to say devs don't have a clue about that :)

Ok, I hear you say, 'HA, and what about the mana multiplier, that means you invested more energy', and you'd normally be right. However, the reason the spell is fired at its default intensity and not already empowered in some way is because it leaves the zone of optimal efficiency, which means energy loss.

Jokes aside, the system does make sense from both the design and logical standpoint, and supporting a skill with splash or proliferate does make it eligible to be supported with AoE supports just as giving it duration with totem enables duration supports.

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raics wrote:

Jokes aside, the system does make sense from both the design and logical standpoint, and supporting a skill with splash or proliferate does make it eligible to be supported with AoE supports just as giving it duration with totem enables duration supports.

The only thing that irks me about it is that I recently found out Controlled Destruction can Support Attacks because of this rule. Reduced critical strike chance, yet never a damage boost. So sad! Makes sense from "balance" perhaps but not exactly design in that case, IMO.

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adghar wrote:

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raics wrote:

Jokes aside, the system does make sense from both the design and logical standpoint, and supporting a skill with splash or proliferate does make it eligible to be supported with AoE supports just as giving it duration with totem enables duration supports.

The only thing that irks me about it is that I recently found out Controlled Destruction can Support Attacks because of this rule. Reduced critical strike chance, yet never a damage boost. So sad! Makes sense from "balance" perhaps but not exactly design in that case, IMO.

Yeah, well, being able to support your skill with a gem that effectively does nothing isn't something new to PoE. They know that we know and we know that they know that we know so we aren't complaining much :)