[3.8] What a Shocking Tri-Element Trapper! [Fire/Ice Trap build][UberAtziri/Shaper Video]

"

bridgeburner wrote:

Just FYI, you have controlled destruction listed twice in your gem setup. I think one of them is meant to be concentrated effect based on your gear.

"

Fuglen wrote:

Hi. Under gem setup for fire trap you have CD listed twice. :)

Thanks, can't believe I didn't notice that. It was indeed supposed to be Concentrated Effect. Fixed.

"

vietanh46 wrote:

Hi!
I've been enjoying the build but i have some questions,
how do you use the Born in Shadow ascendancy nodes other than procing it by getting hit with a 25% chance?

Traps also proc the 25% blind on hit chance of Blinding Assault.

@Orrantia97 A rule of thumb of mine on how Mana heavy a build is can be seen if they need a Mana Flask or not. This build does, so I can guarantee that running two Blasphemy's will get you OoM in a couple Traps.

The real reason this build is so Mana heavy is because of the amount of traps you throw. I don't even think you can fix that problem by skilling a couple Mana nodes. Maybe with Heretic's Veil and an Enlighten Gem on top of that you can manage to do that, yes, though you probably are going to slam that Mana Bottle back every couple seconds.

Hey MrMoho,

Have you considered Vortex Traps instead of something of maybe Shock ?

"

Rajahz wrote:

Hey MrMoho,

Have you considered Vortex Traps instead of something of maybe Shock ?

I've seen (though not tested out myself) that Vortex Traps are really powerful, but they won't work too well with this build. The reason why is Elemental Equilibrium. Since it deals Cold Damage over time, it will constantly proc Elemental Equilibrium, thus killing its own damage. And what else do we have left to throw during AoE? Ice Traps, which also will deal less damage than Elemental Equilibrium. I don't think Vortex Trap is powerful on a 4 link, which means we can't replace Ice Trap with it, and our 6 link is already occupied by Fire Trap.

If we were to replace it with Shock Nova, Elemental Equilibrium would only be a hindrance, especially during AoE. We would need to remove the Elemental Equilibrium node, which would be a -50% resitances upside simply gone! Not to mention that Vortex deals Damage over Time, which takes longer to kill enemies than one cluster insta-explosion of Ice Traps. Also, we wouldn't be able Shock people if we replace Shock Nova Trap and, well, that's kinda the name of the game of this build!

Not saying that Vortex Traps are bad, they just don't mesh well with this build, I'd say.

"

MrMoho wrote:

I've seen (though not tested out myself) that Vortex Traps are really powerful, but they won't work too well with this build. The reason why is Elemental Equilibrium. Since it deals Cold Damage over time, it will constantly proc Elemental Equilibrium, thus killing its own damage. And what else do we have left to throw during AoE? Ice Traps, which also will deal less damage than Elemental Equilibrium. I don't think Vortex Trap is powerful on a 4 link, which means we can't replace Ice Trap with it, and our 6 link is already occupied by Fire Trap.

If we were to replace it with Shock Nova, Elemental Equilibrium would only be a hindrance, especially during AoE. We would need to remove the Elemental Equilibrium node, which would be a -50% resitances upside simply gone! Not to mention that Vortex deals Damage over Time, which takes longer to kill enemies than one cluster insta-explosion of Ice Traps. Also, we wouldn't be able Shock people if we replace Shock Nova Trap and, well, that's kinda the name of the game of this build!

Not saying that Vortex Traps are bad, they just don't mesh well with this build, I'd say.

Wouldn't Elemental Equilibrium be fine for Vertex since DOT damage does not proc EE?

"

bmadfsh wrote:

Wouldn't Elemental Equilibrium be fine for Vertex since DOT damage does not proc EE?

Welp, looks like I made a mistake. Well, only half a mistake. Vortex initial hit does proc Elemental Equilibrium, but not it's following DOT. This still leads to problems with EE, however. Unless you throw immediately a different elemental trap onto those enemies, the main damage of Vortex will still be handicapped.

My other points also are still present. You will either sacrifice Shock Nova Trap, in which case Ice Trap also becomes pretty much obsolete, which would turn the whole build on its head.

If you get rid of Ice Trap, you will either have a subpar Shock Nova Trap or Vortex Trap (or Fire Trap, even). Nah, still can't say Vortex would fit into this build. You could combine a low version with CWDT to slow enemies around you, however, simply using it as a defensive tool, y'know.

"

MrMoho wrote:

Vortex initial hit does proc Elemental Equilibrium, but not it's following DOT. This still leads to problems with EE, however. Unless you throw immediately a different elemental trap onto those enemies, the main damage of Vortex will still be handicapped.

Can't the same be said about fire trap?

I apologize if I'm coming off as criticizing your build, but I'm just trying to figure out what the definite pros and cons of vortex traps are so I could decide to run them or not.

From what I've gathered so far from their wiki pages, it looks to me something like this:

Vortex traps: vortex-trap-cluster traps-cold pen OR trap/mine damage

Pros:
-More damage potential with DOT
-Defensive utility with chill

Cons:
-Lower base damage than ice trap


I'm sure there are more cons I may not be seeing. Does ice trap have some type of overlapping AOE mechanic (without cluster traps) like glacial cascade. If that is the case, I might choose ice traps over vortex trap.

"

bmadfsh wrote:

Can't the same be said about fire trap?

The main damage of Fire Trap is not its burning effect, but the initial blast, unlike with Vortex. That's why EE is far more crippling for Vortex than Fire Trap.

"

bmadfsh wrote:

I apologize if I'm coming off as criticizing your build, but I'm just trying to figure out what the definite pros and cons of vortex traps are so I could decide to run them or not.

No worries, mate, discussion ain't no criticism, I get where you are coming from.

"

bmadfsh wrote:

From what I've gathered so far from their wiki pages, it looks to me something like this:

Vortex traps: vortex-trap-cluster traps-cold pen OR trap/mine damage

Pros:
-More damage potential with DOT
-Defensive utility with chill

Cons:
-Lower base damage than ice trap


I'm sure there are more cons I may not be seeing. Does ice trap have some type of overlapping AOE mechanic (without cluster traps) like glacial cascade. If that is the case, I might choose ice traps over vortex trap.

My main Issue with Vortex is that it doesn't deal its damage fast enough. It may deal more damage over time, and it could very well be more powerful against certain bosses, but for normal trash mobs it's just too slow (I know, it's only takes like a second longer. I'm a very impatient guy).

Another clear downside is that you won't freeze anything with Vortex any time soon. Because on how Status Ailments work, you at least need to deal 5% of an enemies health to apply them (Except for Chill), and since Vortex gets its main damage through DoT it rarely will hit enemies, especially rare once, with 5% of their health.

There is also the downside of Trap Support linked skills having a greater cooldown than natural Traps. That way you may run out of fuel more often while running through maps during AoE situations.

I don't know how powerful Vortex would be on a 4-link, also. Maybe it's as strong as Ice Trap, maybe stronger, maybe not. Needs to be seen.

And to answer your last question: No, Ice Trap has no such effect. It basically is a Ice Crash in Trap form, both simply just a AoE effect.

"

MrMoho wrote:

My main Issue with Vortex is that it doesn't deal its damage fast enough. It may deal more damage over time, and it could very well be more powerful against certain bosses, but for normal trash mobs it's just too slow (I know, it's only takes like a second longer. I'm a very impatient guy).

Another clear downside is that you won't freeze anything with Vortex any time soon. Because on how Status Ailments work, you at least need to deal 5% of an enemies health to apply them (Except for Chill), and since Vortex gets its main damage through DoT it rarely will hit enemies, especially rare once, with 5% of their health.

There is also the downside of Trap Support linked skills having a greater cooldown than natural Traps. That way you may run out of fuel more often while running through maps during AoE situations.

I don't know how powerful Vortex would be on a 4-link, also. Maybe it's as strong as Ice Trap, maybe stronger, maybe not. Needs to be seen.

And to answer your last question: No, Ice Trap has no such effect. It basically is a Ice Crash in Trap form, both simply just a AoE effect.

This definitely helps paint a clearer picture for me between ice traps and vortex traps. Will probably still go vortex trap since I want to, but your points are definitely making me think that ice trap (at least on 4L) may be stronger. Thanks mate!

Hi, I'm trying this build and it's such a gorgeous caster :). But still have some questions.

you said with shock, fire trap can burn boss so fast, but the problem is when fighting big boss as Izaro, the chance of shock is so poor... even it's shcked, the shock duration is too shot. So, to shock a boss, do I need to do more dmg or improve crit chance (i'm only level 60 with shit gear now...)? and another, even i shock with vaal lightenning trap, my fire trap's burnning dmg is still too low, so what "burn" the enemy so fast is the ignition from the initial fire blow instead of the burnning ground created? if so, will the chance to ignite support help to improve the single target dmg when not well geared?

and about the use of the Jaws of Agony, why have you decided to use this instead of Rathpith Globe + Blast Cascade ?

"

chungexintu wrote:

Hi, I'm trying this build and it's such a gorgeous caster :). But still have some questions.

you said with shock, fire trap can burn boss so fast, but the problem is when fighting big boss as Izaro, the chance of shock is so poor... even it's shcked, the shock duration is too shot. So, to shock a boss, do I need to do more dmg or improve crit chance (i'm only level 60 with shit gear now...)? and another, even i shock with vaal lightenning trap, my fire trap's burnning dmg is still too low, so what "burn" the enemy so fast is the ignition from the initial fire blow instead of the burnning ground created? if so, will the chance to ignite support help to improve the single target dmg when not well geared?

and about the use of the Jaws of Agony, why have you decided to use this instead of Rathpith Globe + Blast Cascade ?

Izaro is probably one of the hardest bosses to Shock. He has high health and the Skeletons he summons don't leave a corpse for Elemental Proliferation to work its magic. Honestly, when it comes to something like Izaro, simply switch between throwing Ice and Fire Traps at him. You can, of course, focus more on pure damage with Shock Nova Traps by either linking it with Increased Critical Damage or Lightning Penetration to possibly Shock enemies with higher health bars, hell, maybe even replace Cluster Trap with something to just get a higher single number Damage from your Shock Nova's to, again, have a greater chance to Shock!

The insane Damage I was talking about was indeed the Ignite effect from the Fire Trap. I would suggest against using Chance to Ignite, however, as it only increases the chance to Ignite, which in turn decreases the damage of the Fire Trap which also causes the Ignite to be weaker. Increased Burning Damage would even be a better option as it increases the Damage of both the Ignite and the burning ground effect, buuut I suggest against using it, either.

Get better gear, level yourself and your gems up and you will see that your damage will increase immensely with every level in your Trap skills.

The reason I chose Jaws of Agony is because it delivers Power Charges easy, fast and whenever you want. Blast Cascade only gets you any if the Traps trigger, and it's only a 15% chance. Also, I'm fairly confident that it only gets you a Power Charge if an enemy triggers them, so those triggered by Chain Reaction won't give you any.