[2.6/3.1] Shaper down on budget 5-link - The Debuffing Pizza (Tri-Curse CI Elementalist Flameblast)
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Orbitalx wrote:
Has anyone tried mastermind of discord instead of liege of the primordial? 25 less fire resists on top of the other reduced resists we do would be a pretty insane damage increase. Plus they buffed it so it lasts for 10 seconds now. That means every 10 seconds you just have to drop one orb of storms. I am not sure if lightning golem procs it or not. So the question is, what is better? 80% damage and 16% cast speed from golems and extra meat sheilds that don't die very often or an additional -25 fire res? What do you guys think?
It's in the build guide. Fire pen doesn't double dip while double golem does.
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8. Shall I take "Liege of the Primordial (double golem)" or "Mastermind of Discord (25% fire penetration)"?
Double golem is highly preferred. It effectively gives +60% d-dip damage (if you were going to use Flame Golem without it). The final dps will be close to that with 25% fire pen. Be noticed that "penetration" and "reducing resistance" are DIFFERENT. Penetration only works on the initial hit. It does NOT double dip.
In addition to the DPS boost, double golem gives additional +18% cast speed and grant golems immunity to elemental damage. It's a no-brainer for this build.
Can someome please add some more hints on how to lvl this build? I'm having a lot of trouble. My situation:
1. I'm fairly new to the game (this is my 2nd char)
2. I'm at lvl 35 - wearing a Tabula Rasa and 2 ashcallers
3. Just finished normal
4. I'm following the leveling skill trees but I took some life/mana nodes
5. Everything seems hard. I've got low mana, low health, not enough STR/DEX
What skill combination can I use to lvl up and not die?
Thanks
Using that mace is not a good idea at all. The flat fire damage to spells will apply to Orb of Storms and prevent you from getting any benefits from Elemental Equilibrium (you're actually make it worse for you every time you use orb of storms).
Has anyone tried mastermind of discord instead of liege of the primordial? 25 less fire resists on top of the other reduced resists we do would be a pretty insane damage increase. Plus they buffed it so it lasts for 10 seconds now. That means every 10 seconds you just have to drop one orb of storms. I am not sure if lightning golem procs it or not. So the question is, what is better? 80% damage and 16% cast speed from golems and extra meat sheilds that don't die very often or an additional -25 fire res? What do you guys think?
It's in the build guide. Fire pen doesn't double dip while double golem does.
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8. Shall I take "Liege of the Primordial (double golem)" or "Mastermind of Discord (25% fire penetration)"?
Double golem is highly preferred. It effectively gives +60% d-dip damage (if you were going to use Flame Golem without it). The final dps will be close to that with 25% fire pen. Be noticed that "penetration" and "reducing resistance" are DIFFERENT. Penetration only works on the initial hit. It does NOT double dip.
In addition to the DPS boost, double golem gives additional +18% cast speed and grant golems immunity to elemental damage. It's a no-brainer for this build.
It doesn't double dip but
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"Burning damage which scales with damage dealt by a hit"
-wiki. If your initial hit does a lot more damage, the burn would also do a lot more damage I believe? I honestly don't know.
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"As a damage over time effect, burning damage itself is not a hit and cannot benefit from effects that require a hit, such as Fire Penetration Support inventory icon.pngFire Penetration Support (but not reduced elemental resistances), added damage, leech, and so forth. " -wiki
So I think what this part means is it doesn't double dip with fire pen, but fire pen still increases the damage of the intitial hit which also increases the damage of the burn.
I dunno. I guess you would need some crazy maths to figure it out.
Is this how the math would work? I am probably super wrong :)
Assume 1000 damage flameblast.
Assume mob has 40% fire res:
With no penetration, your flameblast would do 600 damage and burn based on 600 damage.
If you use fire pen gem (37%) your flameblast would do 970 damage and burn based on 970 damage.
If you used fire pen gem (37%) and mastermind of discord (25%) the mob would have -22% fire res and your spell would do 1,220 damage and the burn would be based off that.
Is this how it works?
Last edited by Orbitalx#4006 on Nov 1, 2016, 2:59:09 PM
What about lab enchantments? Are the ones you have on your linked gear the optimal ones? It would be great with some recommendations around this (and maybe add to guide too?)! =)
EDIT: Also a question regarding golems. Would you want 1 of each active at the same time, or both lightning ones? Lightning ones should proc EE more constantly than one of either, but I'd love to hear your thoughts around this too.
Hi. The build does not rely on enchantments. So any related enchantments are bonus. The choices are pretty free here.
The enchants shown in the Gears session are for QoL. The two together gives 150% inc. crit. to QoS and 90% to FB in terms of proccing EE. You can go with these two.
Or you can go for 100%-150% inc. effect of Golems, or FB radius on the helmet; and leech on boots to help sustain mana.
Effects of golems of the same type don't stack. So you want one Lightning and one Flame golem.
Golems don't proc EE unless they are socketed in the mini-EE ring.
Has anyone tried mastermind of discord instead of liege of the primordial? 25 less fire resists on top of the other reduced resists we do would be a pretty insane damage increase. Plus they buffed it so it lasts for 10 seconds now. That means every 10 seconds you just have to drop one orb of storms. I am not sure if lightning golem procs it or not. So the question is, what is better? 80% damage and 16% cast speed from golems and extra meat sheilds that don't die very often or an additional -25 fire res? What do you guys think?
It's in the build guide. Fire pen doesn't double dip while double golem does.
"
8. Shall I take "Liege of the Primordial (double golem)" or "Mastermind of Discord (25% fire penetration)"?
Double golem is highly preferred. It effectively gives +60% d-dip damage (if you were going to use Flame Golem without it). The final dps will be close to that with 25% fire pen. Be noticed that "penetration" and "reducing resistance" are DIFFERENT. Penetration only works on the initial hit. It does NOT double dip.
In addition to the DPS boost, double golem gives additional +18% cast speed and grant golems immunity to elemental damage. It's a no-brainer for this build.
It doesn't double dip but
"
"Burning damage which scales with damage dealt by a hit"
-wiki. If your initial hit does a lot more damage, the burn would also do a lot more damage I believe? I honestly don't know.
"
"As a damage over time effect, burning damage itself is not a hit and cannot benefit from effects that require a hit, such as Fire Penetration Support inventory icon.pngFire Penetration Support (but not reduced elemental resistances), added damage, leech, and so forth. " -wiki
So I think what this part means is it doesn't double dip with fire pen, but fire pen still increases the damage of the intitial hit which also increases the damage of the burn.
I dunno. I guess you would need some crazy maths to figure it out.
Is this how the math would work? I am probably super wrong :)
Assume 1000 damage flameblast.
Assume mob has 40% fire res:
With no penetration, your flameblast would do 600 damage and burn based on 600 damage.
If you use fire pen gem (37%) your flameblast would do 970 damage and burn based on 970 damage.
If you used fire pen gem (37%) and mastermind of discord (25%) the mob would have -22% fire res and your spell would do 1,220 damage and the burn would be based off that.
Is this how it works?
The penetration doesn't come free. You sacrifice 60% inc. fire dmg (which d.dipped) and 18% cast speed and one more golem and elemental immunity of golems for it. Without double golems you probably are required to put Faster Casting for the 6th link. With double golems you can work on a 5-link. And you can put an Empower to the 6th link if you want more numbers. The eventual damage will be higher.
To get the real numbers you need to consider all the inc. dmg. on your gears, EE, curses, boss's resistances, boss's curse resistances etc. OP has done the math and tests and eventually settled on the current optimal setup. The numbers are intentionally not shown in the guide though to avoid any hype about double dipping mechanism etc.
Few questions
1. Does flame golem mess up with EE ? I know area effect of Flame golem is smaller than light golem but there is still a chance that it will mess up with your EE especially on boss fight when you rely on them for tanking boss.
2. Double dipping . Fire damage and burning damage are different ? Preassume that EE procs with OoS then FB has benefit from it ( -%25 max resit ) but then mob will has +50% fire resit from EE . If it is a case then we REKT burning damage.
