Hey guys, so I got pretty lucky this league while trying to do this build. Everything was pretty easy til I got to Guardians. And boy, I literally deal no damage to them. I do realize some of them are immune to poison, but Mino, for example, dies rather quickly in the videos and I could only get him to like 80% hp.
If someone could point me at what I am missing, I would really appreciate it
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So it puts me on 8k 6L Barrage DPS unbuffed (what the fuck)
IGN: KingPurson
Last edited by Svolk#5707 on Jan 23, 2017, 1:19:15 AM
%chaos damage double dips, %attack speed does not... So no, it doesn't give more dps, you're just looking at the tooltip which only counts the initial hit.
With faster attack speed, you will be able to deliver hits faster which also double dip. So yeah, you deal higher damage per single attack with %chaos damage. But in a way, increased attack speed also "double dips" because it results in you dealing your hits faster, applying more poison stacks at a faster rate.
By the way, I am not arguing, I am just trying to understand the math, and am open to correction. Actually would prefer to be corrected because I really prefer my %chaos damage ring coz it has increased rarity.
The way I am understanding it at the moment in a simplified example is:
Scenario 1:
2 hits per second @ 10k dps
Scenario 2:
4 hits per second @ 10k dps
In my understanding, both scenarios are going to do the same amount of damage because even though scenario 1 is a stronger initial hit, scenario 2 is getting more hits per second, resulting in the same damage overall and therefore the same poison damage is applied.
Therefore, what I am assuming is that Attack Speed also "double dips" because it is increasing the speed of the delivery of your Physical/Chaos attacks. If the damage dealt over a period of time is similar, then whether you do it in 3 hits of 5 hits shouldn't matter, because the total damage dealt is still the same resulting in the same poison damage?
I have a question to the ones who know more about all details of this game.
Can i do this chaos-bow build and use a Guardian wielding a United in dream sword?
Im of cause after the envy chaos damage aura that would add 58-81 chaos damage to attacks.
And use the ordinary leer cast and other Guardian stuff.
If i read in wiki about the Envy aura is says:
Envy is an aura that adds chaos damage to the attacks and spells of the caster and their allies.
So will i get this aura if equipping an United in dream on my gaurdian?
Or will it not work?
If i use my United in Dream on one of my own chars, i have to manually turn on the aura (like an ordinary aura gem) so this makes me a bit sceptical that this will work on an Gardian.
Anyone know if it will work?
I have a question to the ones who know more about all details of this game.
Can i do this chaos-bow build and use a Guardian wielding a United in dream sword?
Im of cause after the envy chaos damage aura that would add 58-81 chaos damage to attacks.
And use the ordinary leer cast and other Guardian stuff.
If i read in wiki about the Envy aura is says:
Envy is an aura that adds chaos damage to the attacks and spells of the caster and their allies.
So will i get this aura if equipping an United in dream on my gaurdian?
Or will it not work?
If i use my United in Dream on one of my own chars, i have to manually turn on the aura (like an ordinary aura gem) so this makes me a bit sceptical that this will work on an Gardian.
Anyone know if it will work?
Relatively sure that it wouldn't work. As you said it grants the skill, not an aura. Which is why people typically build their guardians with items that provide an effect to allies like that one staff.
Also the idea of having a 5ex sword in my guardian makes me really afraid. Especially when you have no minion life nodes or resistance.
i ve to to post a second big THANK YOU in this Thread an Hope you maybe will read it. I play poe since Mar 31, 2012 and never had so much fun & progress with a build like this. It is a CHARM. I never done the 6L-Achievement, the Gem level 20-Achievement till NOW!!! I am sure i will get the Vaal Gem 20 Achievement too! And i am only 1 level away from my First Level 90 Character =)
Thank you for not only sharing the build, also a step by step manual during leveling and after this a step by step manual for optimising every itemslot, gem slot and whatsover.
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As you can see i invested good currency and i don't regret it.
My next goals are to get some more Fusing Orbs for a 6L Chest. Got a Second 5l (not that good rolled) in the stash tab to be save. And i will collect more Chaos Currency to maybe buy me that sweet projectile Flasks :)
Right now i don't have that great luck with high level Tier Maps. I run about 8-10 Tier Maps all the time. but its really great to feel the strength and potency of this build while leveling all the 20% Quality Gems up again level by level =). Every DING is a great Damage boost. I LOVE IT!
I'm very happy that you're having that much fun :D
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Zeekin wrote:
OP may or may not see this, but based off his build I made this raider version that takes advantage of perma phasing and voidwalker boots for 100% pierce without gem/skill points. Since it's raider I instead use PCoC and bloodrage becomes optional since you generate frenzy charges with ascendancy skills.
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very interesting approach. whats your unbuffed/fully buffed movespeed? did you try it vs end game bosses like minotaur or shaper?
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Svolk wrote:
Hey guys, so I got pretty lucky this league while trying to do this build. Everything was pretty easy til I got to Guardians. And boy, I literally deal no damage to them. I do realize some of them are immune to poison, but Mino, for example, dies rather quickly in the videos and I could only get him to like 80% hp.
If someone could point me at what I am missing, I would really appreciate it
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So it puts me on 8k 6L Barrage DPS unbuffed (what the fuck)
i dont know why your tooltip is that low, but before you get 9-10k barrage 6L tooltip in hideout, you shouldnt expect great results vs guardians/shaper. I recommend getting 10k tooltip , everything above 12k is faceroll usually.
your amulet could get some crit multi, its kinda huge, and you definetely need more accuracy somewhere ( i recommend getting at least ~300 somewhere on gear. the more the merrier)
With faster attack speed, you will be able to deliver hits faster which also double dip. So yeah, you deal higher damage per single attack with %chaos damage. But in a way, increased attack speed also "double dips" because it results in you dealing your hits faster, applying more poison stacks at a faster rate.
The way I am understanding it at the moment in a simplified example is:
Scenario 1:
2 hits per second @ 10k dps
Scenario 2:
4 hits per second @ 10k dps
In my understanding, both scenarios are going to do the same amount of damage because even though scenario 1 is a stronger initial hit, scenario 2 is getting more hits per second, resulting in the same damage overall and therefore the same poison damage is applied.
Therefore, what I am assuming is that Attack Speed also "double dips" because it is increasing the speed of the delivery of your Physical/Chaos attacks. If the damage dealt over a period of time is similar, then whether you do it in 3 hits of 5 hits shouldn't matter, because the total damage dealt is still the same resulting in the same poison damage?
Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Good understanding of double dipping would be helpful. After increasing % attack speed you will still poison for the same % of damage. After increasing % chaos damage you will poison for higher % of the damage.
So if you poison for 50% of damage, after increasing % attack speed u will do 10k dps (tooltip) plus still 50% of damage as poison, so 15k dps (to make it easier let's suppose that poison is applied instantly). But if you do 10k dps (tooltip) after increasing 20% chaos damage you will do 60% (50% + 50%*20%) damage as poison, so 16k dps. And poison dmg increased with Toxic Delivery and Void Manipulation making it even more efficient.
Last edited by Sztefen1#1808 on Jan 23, 2017, 2:12:27 PM
With faster attack speed, you will be able to deliver hits faster which also double dip. So yeah, you deal higher damage per single attack with %chaos damage. But in a way, increased attack speed also "double dips" because it results in you dealing your hits faster, applying more poison stacks at a faster rate.
The way I am understanding it at the moment in a simplified example is:
Scenario 1:
2 hits per second @ 10k dps
Scenario 2:
4 hits per second @ 10k dps
In my understanding, both scenarios are going to do the same amount of damage because even though scenario 1 is a stronger initial hit, scenario 2 is getting more hits per second, resulting in the same damage overall and therefore the same poison damage is applied.
Therefore, what I am assuming is that Attack Speed also "double dips" because it is increasing the speed of the delivery of your Physical/Chaos attacks. If the damage dealt over a period of time is similar, then whether you do it in 3 hits of 5 hits shouldn't matter, because the total damage dealt is still the same resulting in the same poison damage?
Am I incorrect in assuming this?
Good understanding of double dipping would be helpful. After increasing % attack speed you will still poison for the same % of damage. After increasing % chaos damage you will poison for higher % of the damage.
So if you poison for 50% of damage, after increasing % attack speed u will do 10k dps (tooltip) plus still 50% of damage as poison, so 15k dps (to make it easier let's suppose that poison is applied instantly). But if you do 10k dps (tooltip) after increasing 20% chaos damage you will do 60% (50% + 50%*20%) damage as poison, so 16k dps. And poison dmg increased with Toxic Delivery and Void Manipulation making it even more efficient.
Let's assume 2 attacks per second vs 4 aps. Slower attacker with a 20% Increased Chaos damage. While the faster one does not have this.
Assume we do 100 physical and chaos damage each without any other modifier like projectile or chaos damage apart from the 20% one.
So, at 2aps -
We do 8 + 8*1.2 17.6 per shot or 35.2 damage of poison per second.
At 4 aps -
We do 16 poison damage per arrow or 64 poison per second.
All things being equal, having more attack speed will stack more poisons on the enemy per second leading to a higher effective dps.
I have the PoB builds compared against mine as well as another guy's koTF build in Standard using Legacy reach. I have 3 aps and he has nearly 4.5 His damage if I replace legacy reach with new Reach, is almost equal to mine because I have higher % increased Chaos jewellery while he has more damage and crit multi.
Let's assume 2 attacks per second vs 4 aps. Slower attacker with a 20% Increased Chaos damage. While the faster one does not have this.
Assume we do 100 physical and chaos damage each without any other modifier like projectile or chaos damage apart from the 20% one.
So, at 2aps -
We do 8 + 8*1.2 17.6 per shot or 35.2 damage of poison per second.
At 4 aps -
We do 16 poison damage per arrow or 64 poison per second.
All things being equal, having more attack speed will stack more poisons on the enemy per second leading to a higher effective dps.
I have the PoB builds compared against mine as well as another guy's koTF build in Standard using Legacy reach. I have 3 aps and he has nearly 4.5 His damage if I replace legacy reach with new Reach, is almost equal to mine because I have higher % increased Chaos jewellery while he has more damage and crit multi.
We consider 2aps vs 4aps with the same damage per second, not with the same damage per hit. In your case should be then:
At 2aps:
100 dps + 16*1.2 poison dmg, so 100 + 19.2 (yes, it takes 2 seconds, but we can assume its instant to make it easier, overall damage is the same)
At 4aps
100 dps + 16 poison dmg.
@ggsbv You are correct with your example (2hits v 4hits), but dont see the point of this example regarding double dipping.
