Self found can use a bit of love

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Jennik wrote:

It seems POE is possibly getting a decent-sized influx of players from Diablo 3. Since that game's pretty heavy on the solo self found side, maybe it's time for a little outreach to players who enjoy that style of play. Possibly changes like those proposed in the OP?

Just saying. Could be nice.

yeah we totally should change the game to cater to players that d3 did

Plenty of reasons have already been given as to why GGG should improve the game by making it more accessible to self found play. Pretending that I'm arguing we should change the game just to appeal to former D3 players is dishonest and blatantly false.

GGG should improve the game as I suggested in order to, as I said in the OP, make the game better for all players. Appealing to the disgruntled former D3 players is a nice bonus. Appealing to those players is clearly not the reason for the changes, though.

None of the arguments I presented months ago (or years ago in some cases in other threads) have suddenly become invalid. The mistakes GGG has made over the years that heavily impact self found play are still hurting the game.

You seem to be misunderstanding GGG intentions. No one is saying it wouldnt be nice if SF players could receive some improvements. What we are saying is that the suggestion in general is directly against the core philosophy this game has been built on.

The most important thing for GGG in POE is to maintain player interaction in an active ever changing economy. SF improvements dismantle this concept the game has been built on.

Now lets say you are not advocating for anything drop rate related while playing solo. Those suggestions are absolutely valid and possible for future implementation. But anything drop rate related simply can not happen.

POE had enough issues with RMT, SF would make RMT sites even more money. As for the actual player base it would cause a decline in the need to trade and thus tyrn the game into what Garena has become. If you dont follow Garena server, basically it is dead. You are lucky if you can even find some one to trade in Standard.

GGG has got the trading aspect of the game into a good place. They will not do anything that could potentially destroy the trading economy.

1. Gems have become way more available. All non quest reward gems and drop only gems are purchaseable from vendors for dirt cheap. If you wany the rest you have to mule. The reason they are quest only is for races and they cant set soecific rules for racing and regular play without creating an entirely new environment to play in. Ie a different client or a different server.

2. The issue of map sustain is a core mechanic. This has less issues now if you do every map as you get increased map drop rate from the Atlas. meaning it is better for everyone now than before.

3 and 4. Once again this affects every one not just SF. The difference is SF cant take short cuts and buy them. Unique maps drop more often now due to Atlas, not the other way around. so in fact Atlas made getting unique maps easier for SF players, not the other way around.

Dude, the things I'm complaining about are very specific and very clearly stated. How are you so thoroughly confused about what I'm asking for? You even went down the list of complaints I gave and still failed to grok every single point I made. That takes a very special kind of talent.

1) What value does not getting the gems you need for your build add to the game? Say GGG improves this terrible part of the game and adds a vendor in merciless who sells every gem. How does this hurt the game? Remember, races changing is not the same as races being damaged in some way, even disregarding that it's an incredibly rare race that would even be impacted by changes to merciless vendors anyway.

If you're going to argue that this merciless vendor will hurt racing, explain why. So far nobody has managed to do this, so you can be the hero for all the people valiantly arguing against improving POE's gem availability.

2) The complaint is about MAP DIVERSITY, not map sustainability. How did not get this? Literally nothing you wrote is relevant to my point. Did you only read up to the word "map," get bored, and decide to skip along to the next question? Come on, guy. You can do better than this.

3 + 4) I have no idea why you have so completely failed to understand how unique maps drop now that Atlas is around. Instead of dropping everywhere, each one only drops in one specific location. You can get Caer Blaidd to drop in one map now instead of in all maps that you run. How is it easier for self found players to get unique maps now?

As to "this affects everyone," dur. Everything I'm talking about affects everyone since all I'm talking about are different aspects of POE. Every single improvement I suggest will improve the game for everyone, regardless of whether they play self found or not. I explicitly state this in the OP. Try to keep up.

All map drops are increased by a base 100% if you do every map, not counting other drop rate modifiers in maps. Please tell me how that doesnt improve drop rate of maps for SSF or SF...

Having every gem in a vendor is stupid. Every gem is not at a vendor for a reason and thats for races. They prevent each base class from being able to progress in a race with a skill of another class. In races you cant just buy what ever skills you want. You need that currency for gear. If however there is a skill of another class that works better with your class, you gain an unfair advantage. In this scenario not every build will improve by being able to buy certain skills or supports their class can not get. As such racing becomes unfair and unbalanced because there will be best choices and worst choices.

As a side note most unique maps are trash. Maybe you want to farm them for completing atlas. If you were smart however you were not playing every single map under the sun but instead only playing the best maps with the best layouts. You dont need better drop rates if only the best maps in atlas can even drop to begin with. It is a little harder to do as SF or SSF but Uber Lab completely bypasses 90% of Atlas progression.

You are just misinformed on how to best utelize the atlas mechanic. Thats your fault. If only GGG tried to teach people their own game, people like you might learn something.

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Jgizle wrote:

All map drops are increased by a base 100% if you do every map, not counting other drop rate modifiers in maps. Please tell me how that doesnt improve drop rate of maps for SSF or SF...

Everything else you said is so ridiculous and off base that a second attempt at getting through to you is surely just as doomed to failure as the first, but you're just factually wrong here. Maps have a chance to increase in tier based on how many maps you've completed. You don't get double the map drops once you've completed 100 maps.

To be fair to you, what you said here was the original plan, but it was changed well before Atlas even came out. That original plan would have been a huge boon to the game, especially in regards to map diversity. I was very disappointed with the system they eventually went with.

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Jennik wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

All map drops are increased by a base 100% if you do every map, not counting other drop rate modifiers in maps. Please tell me how that doesnt improve drop rate of maps for SSF or SF...

Everything else you said is so ridiculous and off base that a second attempt at getting through to you is surely just as doomed to failure as the first, but you're just factually wrong here. Maps have a chance to increase in tier based on how many maps you've completed. You don't get double the map drops once you've completed 100 maps.

To be fair to you, what you said here was the original plan, but it was changed well before Atlas even came out. That original plan would have been a huge boon to the game, especially in regards to map diversity. I was very disappointed with the system they eventually went with.

As far as i am aware the atlas works like this.

1. All tier 1 maps can drop by default.

2. Any other maps completed only drop maps connected to that map on the atlas.

3. Completing very specific chosen maos in atlas means you can specifically build your atlas to always drop a T1 map, or a tiered map near where the current map you are running is, meaning you can always use the 3 to 1 map recipe to get the same tier map you are runn8ng.

4. When a map drops it first checks what areas are available to drop, and then rolls what tier that map will be. This means if I run only the best t9 and 10 maps and the map does not roll T1 it can only roll t9 + if i am running a t10 map. This mesns I ultimately have better control of my drops.

5. Every map you complete is supposed to give 1% map quantity or map drop rate, meaning it is easier to get maps and sustain them. Likewise the best maps are layed out in a way that you can guarantee that you only get the best maps of every tier and no trash maps. There is also enough of these maps that you can do over half the maps and still only be able to have good maps drip that can be infinitly converted up to higher tiers.

You are very wrong on how the Atlas works.

1) This is correct.

2) This is not. Maps that you have completed can drop anywhere. Maps that you have not yet completed can only drop if you are adjacent to them.

3) I can't completely untangle what you're trying to say here. You're able to complete the Atlas in such a way that only certain maps will drop, though. You do this at the cost of map diversity and the bonus you get for completing maps.

4) This is wrong. Maps roll tier first, then base type. If you only have tier 1 and tier 10 maps unlocked and a tier 7 drop is rolled, no map drops for you. You can't have an Atlas that only drops tier 1 and tier 15+ maps without missing out on tons of map drops.

5) Like I said in the previous post, the Atlas bonus does not work that way. You keep repeating points in your posts that I have already explained are wrong. Please don't do that.

You can read GGG's manifesto post on the Atlas if you're still confused about anything.

Edit: That manifesto is about Atlas updates, but the wiki's Atlas pages or just a Google search will cover any questions.

Meh, the increase chance of obtaining a map of a higher level to ensure progression should be reworked to an increase in chance to never drop a map below the same level as the one that you are playing at least, even if capped at less than 100% as the current system just feels so unrewarding for playing a red tier map and you just receive a tier 1-5 after killing the goddamn boss...

That would ensure better progression (via map recipe at least) and a higher rate of sustaining at least the same level of content that you could manage, and as long rares and bosses could still drop a +1/+2 tiers map, you're set to actually progress in the Atlas no matter what, as long as your build is capable of handling the content...

Agree completely that the need to run adjacent map to hope to get a unique map is terrible for SFers. I posted a thread recently in gameplay help and people gave me suggestions, such as chancing the map, running Perandus etc. Nothing helped, blew alot of hard earned currency, and I gave up.

And what's worse, I have FOUR shaper orbs on those unique maps!

Hopefully they change THIS at least, though I agree pretty much with everything in the OP.

Cdchi1