[2.4] THOR'S RAINBOWNUKE: RIP to GGG Designing for Xbox One

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RicoKGB wrote:

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tackle70 wrote:

Added a pair of comparison videos in OP which demonstrates the relative strength of this build.

tackle70 as much as I respect you and your build this isnt really a fair comparision. Your build is at lvl 95 in the video, mine is at lvl 89.


My current tree at lvl 89 looks like this:

lvl 89 tree

at lvl 95 it will be lookig like this:

lvl 95 tree

As you can see it will gain 66% increased dmg that Im currently missing. Build has 40%, 44% and an option of 59% for a total of 3x 40%+ MULTIPLIERS so this 66% inc spell dmg will be a significant difference overall.

My current Arc dps per tootlip is 5700 . At lvl 95 it will reach 6500. I know that yours is 9500 and I wont argue that Arc alone Rainbownuke has better dmg output.

But with Discharge its a different story. Simply because your build utilizes elemental penetration on lightning part only. Mine has 41% penetration on both lightning and fire.

Rainbownuke has an option to shock via VoV but either do mine build. What is more it can support itself vs Boss with Righteus Fire for additional 59% more spell dmg. It will be doing more dmg when Bossing than Rainbownuke. I have calculated this using your tree and gear and mine tree and gear @ lvl 95.

More than that in the linked video I wasnt using RF vs boss because I was on a 5link without fortify.

Now you can remove that comparision and wait for me to lvl up and we can redo that comparision with the new recording if you want.

However we both now that Rainbownuke will still be a bit faster in pack clearing but not that significant as it is now. While vs Bosses my life version should have an advantage due to utilizing RF (and thats considering the dmg alone, without other factors).

However I think that doing such a comparisions is a step in wrong direction.

And if you did it just to bring attention than thats a poor play really.

Frankly, while I did do a comparison with your build, I may do so with others (like savagenuke) as well; point wasn't necessarily to single yours out, yours was just one of the first to actually update to 2.4. Most other Mjolner guides have in their title or OP some argument for why the're better than this build. Making a build thread titled "Mjolner done right" invites comparison, so I'm not going to apologize for putting a comparison video in the OP so people can judge for themselves. This build has all its damage in place by the time it's level 80, so as far as clear speed goes, that wouldn't change. I'm happy to re-record with less ES (the only difference dropping to 89 from 95 would make on this build) or to re-link an updated video you might post at higher level. Feel free to go put up a video of your build doing something this one can't in your thread - I'm quite up front in the OP with what this build is good and bad at.

With the nerfs to Juggernaut, I no longer believe that any other Mjolner build is going to be able to compete with this one for mapping with respect to versatility, clear speed, and overall power level. Others were able to do that pre-2.4 because they could approximate the damage output of Rainbownuke with the insane number of Endurance Charges discharged by Juggernaut, but that's no longer the case. And most other Mjolner builds have some problematic map mods more than just "No Leech".

I can't figure how your build has 41% ele penetration of both types - you aren't running dual penetration gems from what I can tell (fire pen + light pen) so I'm either missing something or you are mistaken about elemental penetration (ele weakness does not give elemental penetration).

I'm not trying to turn this into a spitting match, but while Tackle's comparison may be a bit in 'poor taste', the title of your build thread could certainly be seen that way as well. I mean...'Mjolner Done Right'? It's like you're implying that your way is truly the 'right way' and that anything else done is the 'wrong way', and again, I'm saying that when trying to look at it from an outsider's perspective. Just take a few moments, step back, and look at it that way and you might see where I'm coming from in it.

That said, I have a question about this: But with Discharge its a different story. Simply because your build utilizes elemental penetration on lightning part only. Mine has 41% penetration on both lightning and fire.

I was checking your thread as before I did run a Juggernaut style Mjolner build and used your guidelines for it, but I'm sorta scratching my head here. Where exactly are you getting 41% penetration on both lightning and fire? Are you referring to your Elemental Weakness + Blasphemy gem setup in your shield? Excluding that node you took on the tree that provides +2 to all penetration, if you had EW + Blasphemy at max quality on each, you're looking at maybe 48% reduced elemental resistances. BUT...that's not elemental penetration...I don't see any Elemental Penetration gems in your setup anywhere, and EW doesn't 'penetrate' elemental resistances, at least, not in the way EP gems do.

For those who might be a bit confused:

Elemental Weakness Gem -> Reduces the elemental resists an enemy has from whatever its CURRENT TOTAL is. So, if you're running a map that has something like +80% Fire and Lightning ER on all enemies, and let's say their base elemental resists are 75%, then that means their TOTAL Fire and Lightning resists are 155%. If you curse them with EW as stated above, then you get:

155 - 48 = 107% total Fire/Lightning resists. The game will still treat them as having 75% MAX RESISTS, so that Elemental Weakness does nothing in this case. It only helps when that current total cannot outstrip its subtracted amount, otherwise, it doesn't do anything.


Elemental Penetration Gem -> Reduces an enemy's MAX RESISTS and sets it at the appropriate number REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ENEMY'S TOTAL RESISTS IS. So for the above example, even though enemies may have 155% total ER for Fire and Lightning, the game treats them as having a MAX RESIST of 75%. EP Gems subtract from the MAX RESIST TOTAL and completely bypass the extra resists. So if you had a Lightning Penetration gem that - for example - penetrated 50% Lightning Resist, the enemy would be treated as having a MAX TOTAL of 25% Lightning resist, regardless of the 155% total it gets from the map buffs, because those don't add to the MAX RESIST.


Now, I am not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious as to where you're getting that 41% penetration from, because I don't see any EPGs in your setup at all, and I don't believe you mentioned in your thread that you're using them. But for everyone else, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Elemental Weakness and Elemental Penetration gems, and if you're by chance thinking that EW is like a global elemental penetration thing...it doesn't work that way. But again, I'm just looking for clarification here.

Removed editorializing comments from video comparison in OP as it was probably in poor taste.

My present intent is to post direct map-to-map example comparisons from this build to the other main mjolner builds out there, as they themselves are updated to 2.4. I'll probably do that so long as I'm convinced that this is the clearly optimal choice for a Mjolner build running endgame maps.

Hi
This looks like a very interesting build.
The problem is that im not sure if the budget version based on how much currency i have is enough to suffice for the build to run it with my character which is a level 86. Its a earthquake character but it feels too boring atm. I have over 5ex in currency which in 4ex pure and like 100chaos orbs. The build does really look damaged packed. The thing is that i have never played build worth over 2ex as im afraid that i might make a mistake and end up wasting currency.

Do you think you can help me out in game and help me run through it if you decide that it works?

My IGN: Manly_Maniac

PM me please

Thank you tackle70 (in advance) for reading this!

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Ucero wrote:

Hi
This looks like a very interesting build.
The problem is that im not sure if the budget version based on how much currency i have is enough to suffice for the build to run it with my character which is a level 86. Its a earthquake character but it feels too boring atm. I have over 5ex in currency which in 4ex pure and like 100chaos orbs. The build does really look damaged packed. The thing is that i have never played build worth over 2ex as im afraid that i might make a mistake and end up wasting currency.

Do you think you can help me out in game and help me run through it if you decide that it works?

My IGN: Manly_Maniac

PM me please

Thank you tackle70 (in advance) for reading this!

If you're in standard league, which I assume, the main question is if you can afford volls devotion. The three expensive uniques in this build (mjolner, shavs, volls devo) have remained pretty viable for a long time so I think they're worth the investment. The build is a bit squishy without volls, though, so if you can't afford one and don't want to save up for one, you may want to look into something cheaper.

The investment aspects of this build are why I play it - it's been at or around the top tier of power level for mapping builds for over two years with no major changes to the core passive, gear, and gem requirements. Not many builds can make that claim. If you want to invest in a solid mapping build, I think that you can't do much better than this.

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tackle70 wrote:

Frankly, while I did do a comparison with your build, I may do so with others (like savagenuke) as well; point wasn't necessarily to single yours out, yours was just one of the first to actually update to 2.4. Most other Mjolner guides have in their title or OP some argument for why the're better than this build. Making a build thread titled "Mjolner done right" invites comparison, so I'm not going to apologize for putting a comparison video in the OP so people can judge for themselves. This build has all its damage in place by the time it's level 80, so as far as clear speed goes, that wouldn't change. I'm happy to re-record with less ES (the only difference dropping to 89 from 95 would make on this build) or to re-link an updated video you might post at higher level. Feel free to go put up a video of your build doing something this one can't in your thread - I'm quite up front in the OP with what this build is good and bad at.

With the nerfs to Juggernaut, I no longer believe that any other Mjolner build is going to be able to compete with this one for mapping with respect to versatility, clear speed, and overall power level. Others were able to do that pre-2.4 because they could approximate the damage output of Rainbownuke with the insane number of Endurance Charges discharged by Juggernaut, but that's no longer the case. And most other Mjolner builds have some problematic map mods more than just "No Leech".

I can't figure how your build has 41% ele penetration of both types - you aren't running dual penetration gems from what I can tell (fire pen + light pen) so I'm either missing something or you are mistaken about elemental penetration.

No offence taken. However in my guide theres no refference to Rainbownuke. It is fine to compare things. But as I stated: this exact comparision is not fair because of 6 lvls difference.

When I manage to get mine to like lvl 92 than we can compare builds again. If I manage to do so than I'll record a new Sulphur Waste video and pm you with the new link. Im fine with that.

I dont want to "attack" Rainbownuke (or any other builds) in any kind or form. My build thread was named "done right" long ago as its from my "done right series" (I had different builds in the past with that name). I also have Rainbownuke since 2.2. So I have a good understanding on what it is good and bad at.

I was thinking to maybe actually do some work together at some point and create some kind of a an honest description that would describe differences between the builds. You know, that we can include that in our guides for people to read. But that would be possible after I lvl up a bit with mine. This would be mostly for posts like "hey tackle/rico cool build, but how it compares to Rainbownuke/Rico's build" that we had allready plenty in the past.

Abaout that penetration: bad wording. I'm using +2 from tree and Ele weakness via blasphemy. This gem @ 20/20 together with the tree provides total of 46 reduced ele resistance (not penetration). However theres 60% curse eff reduction vs bosses. Anyway according to poedb all map bosses has around 40-45% ele resistances so in that case both Lpen and EW can be treated exactly same in dmg calculation.

For your information heres a calculation of both builds DPS using your tree and gear and mine tree and gear (bot trees @ lvl 95):

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tackle70 wrote:

My present intent is to post direct map-to-map example comparisons from this build to the other main mjolner builds out there, as they themselves are updated to 2.4. I'll probably do that so long as I'm convinced that this is the clearly optimal choice for a Mjolner build running endgame maps.

As far as clearing speed goes I wont argue that Rainbownuke does it best (currently). It has 9.5k+ Arc and runs quickly with Haste on 60% aura effectiveness. But current life Zerker wont be far behind.

Thanks for the reply tackle70

Atm i don't have a solid standard build for mapping as i play temp leagues but they get really boring and don't really have a solid build to return to, so this seems like a good option for me.

I guess i can wait a bit until one of my armour sells because the price of voll's devotion has dropped a bit which is nice. I guess i can wait for my 11ex armour (might sell for less to get the ex) to sell then ill be sure to buy one.
Im assuming that it does not matter what voll's devotion i buy?

Btw do you think that i can add you ingame please?

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Ucero wrote:

Thanks for the reply tackle70

Atm i don't have a solid standard build for mapping as i play temp leagues but they get really boring and don't really have a solid build to return to, so this seems like a good option for me.

I guess i can wait a bit until one of my armour sells because the price of voll's devotion has dropped a bit which is nice. I guess i can wait for my 11ex armour (might sell for less to get the ex) to sell then ill be sure to buy one.
Im assuming that it does not matter what voll's devotion i buy?

Btw do you think that i can add you ingame please?

I don't mind when ppl add me ingame.

If you can get a voll's devotion with the normal implicit intact (either non-corrupt or a corrupt where nothing happened) it's helpful because of the +24 strength, but it's not necessary - worst case is you have to spend an extra passive point on a +30 strength node if you get a corrupt one without the implicit.

Okay thanks i added you in the game.

I just hope (fingers crossed) that my stuff will sell.



The non-corrupt ones are pretty much twice the price which is a pain in the neck so im probably going to have to get one like that...

@rico @tackle: Personally I fucking LOVE both of your builds, both are damn amazing! Both builds are the reason why PoE is fun again, atleast for me! As soon as I get an Cospri's Malice I'll also go for the new Fakener https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1724170 thats actually all I want to play...as long as PoE lasts.

To be honest, I can't tell wich build is better, I don't know if ricos or tackles build is better. I even think nobody can tell BUT both are truly amazing! Ricos build seems to be the best choice if someone prefer a life based build and so is tackles build the best one if someone prefer a LL build. Personally, I decdided to go for the LL version of it (tackles build) because I just love LL (LL is love, LL is (low)life...huehue) and because I can use one of my favourite items ever...Shavs! That's it. Sooner or later I might level up another Marauder and then I'll follow ricos build and then I can simply change between life based and LL. Sure, both got their pros/cons but for me its pretty simple: if you prefer life based (maybe it is even a bit cheaper, not sure tho) take ricos and if you prefer LL take tackles. That's it. Both are totally endgame viable but also both needs an investement and they ain't cheap! Never was and never will be. But both are worth every single currency you put in!

Anyways thanks a lot guys, you both are fucking amazing and I hope you two will work together in the future because PoE gonna last!

@Ucero: Welcome to the Mjölner club! :D Trust me, both builds are worth every single chaos/ex. And btw, a corrupted Voll's is totally fine! I even prefer one with lightning dmg leech over one with strength/int (non-corrupted) because you can easily push your strength/int by a few jewels and yeah its a lil bit cheaper then.