Essence Metamod Crafting

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

in this thread: people who would never be rich or smart enough to craft like this crying like they actually just lost something.

Pretty much this. I played the longest ever in 2.2 and 2.3, I got to 7EX in 2.2 and 4EX in 2.3. This change means that its decently worth using essences myself. Before the change the only sane thing to do with them was metamod and I've never once gotten rich enough to do that more than once. Now its worth rolling the dice since it'll either be me or some rich dude doing it and neither of us has an advantage on any given essence.

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Chris wrote:

At the end of the day, this master metamod Essence crafting was something that less than 1% of our players will be wealthy enough to attempt, but would dramatically affect the rare item economy for everyone. Essences already apply a large boost to the potential of rare item crafting, so we feel that this particular case was a bit too far in the direction of "the rich get richer".

1% will be wealthy anough. Probably less then 10% of the players are ever going to get their hands on a T7 essence. Top Tier is for the top players.

would dramatically affect the rare item economy Heck what was there to expect in a league with essences that make rare items? With metamod crafts the market would shift where decent rares would become dirt cheap that would help more people reach the atlas of worlds. I would regard this as a good thing.

a bit too far in the direction of "the rich get richer"Would still happen at a considerable rate, no matter what.

p.s. Disregarding the effects on permanent standard economy.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Basically you agree with me now? The one and only potential advantage of the T1 essence in the example is a quantitative one. You can simply replace a stack of essences with a (larger) stack of chaos orbs. So regarding the T1 essence in the example the "make rares great again" essence league means: We now have more(*) chaos for "spam crafting" the Vaal Regalia.

(*) It could actually turn out to be less due to layout mechanics and/or it taking longer to kill essence packs than other packs. Far as I understand it requires multiple clicks to kill the essence pack. 1x-click offscreening everything doesnt work with them. But they have a fancy new name.

We have different points of view, but I think we both understand what an essence is. I think the power is in getting the mod you want, you think it is in getting a T0 roll (which might happen with chaos, if there are new tiers at all). The corrupted essences will provide you the qualitative changes though -- if I understand them correctly they're mods that can only be obtained with essences -- nothing to do with a higher tier, actually unique mods.

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good change, that seemed too powerful, too much faffing around, not enough rng. I want crafting to be easier, but not like that.

We dony rly know how many high tier essences we will get, so I dont think its fair to say they will not result in some decent opportunity. Its not looking great tbh for crafting stuff, time will tell.

We dont need new mats like this to make crafting good honestly, crafting is already amazing, its just that the existing orbs which do everything you need to do dont drop nearly enough. Exalt drop rates in particular are completely farcical from a crafting point of view and basically destroy crafting for 99.9% of players.

Yeah, since the range of the tiers is still too low. The solution is something which obviously would turn standard crafters into grave! :-) :-) :-)

Add 6 another tiers - tier 0, tier -1, ..., tier -5. Each stronger, but more scarce. At least 2 times more difficult to roll than previous tier. Now let exalts drop as often as chaos orbs. :-)

It's that easy - the whole problem is that item tier range is still not wide enough. :-)

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Chris wrote:

At the end of the day, this master metamod Essence crafting was something that less than 1% of our players will be wealthy enough to attempt, but would dramatically affect the rare item economy for everyone.

you pointed exactly to the source of the problem.

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i'm pretty happy that essences kind of realised the old forum idea (whas it scrotieMcB?) of a "lesser exalted orb".

I would like to point out a similar mechanic to chaos spamming for late game items.

http://www.freeslots.com/

Granting a deterministic mod by using essences is just like pulling the handle on that slot machine --- only with this method, you get to hold 1 reel out of 6 in place.


What I think would be good is having the essences work backwards from our normal currency tiers. With garbage essences working like exalts/augs, mid tier mods work like regals, and top tier mods work like alchs/chaos, in addition to the change you've already made.

This way the insanely rich can spam their life away on the top tier items, but at a high essence/currency sink.

Normal players that want viable end-game weaponry/armor can farm up alterations, get two good mods and add a mid tier essence in order to be relevant for end game (looking at melee builds on this one)

Meanwhile the garbage tier essences will be both viable for low level via a nice power spike on a piece of leveling gear AND high levels for filling out needed mods on already crafted items without ramping said items into god-tier.

And the best thing about it would be that you guys (GGG) would have full control on which tiers fall into which categories, as well as the ability to bump and demote essences on the fly for balance changes.

What are your thoughts on this suggestion GGG?

The chaos essences ignoring suffixes/prefixes cannot be changed mods seems messy to me. I'd expect that quite a few players will miss this tiny tidbit of forum/reddit information, and then lose some exalts over it.

How will it be made clear in game that these essences are not consistent in functionality with all other orbs?


Creating this exception is also not needed:
1 chaos essence that overrides prefixes/suffixes cannot be changed = 2 orbs of scouring + 1 alch essence.

The simplest solution (KISS) seems to be the best to me: all essences can only work as alchemy orbs.

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DracoArgentum wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

in this thread: people who would never be rich or smart enough to craft like this crying like they actually just lost something.

Pretty much this. I played the longest ever in 2.2 and 2.3, I got to 7EX in 2.2 and 4EX in 2.3. This change means that its decently worth using essences myself. Before the change the only sane thing to do with them was metamod and I've never once gotten rich enough to do that more than once. Now its worth rolling the dice since it'll either be me or some rich dude doing it and neither of us has an advantage on any given essence.

ya exactly, if this exists then you are an idiot if you dont do it this way and that means you need at least 4 exalts to even use an essence 'properly'.

If they wanted to allow a bit more control over the item it would be, imo, healthier to make it work like a regal that randomly fills up 4 to 6 properties rather than just adding a 2nd/3rd. That would be more powerful and controllable but its still something mr average player can do either by alt spamming or even simply identifying good blue bases until you have a good start. This metamodding stuff would make it purely a rich mans sport, its everything you dont want this sort of crafting to be and I cant rly understand why anyone would be upset with this change. Way too much control, way too much power and worst of all it becomes like eternal exalt spam where you are in the club who can afford to get very rich that way or you are left out in the cold.

Can you imagine the chaos:exalt ratio in sc essence league if mastercrafting like this worked? I shudder at the thought of it. If 4 exalts can do what it would have taken 600 eternals + 600 exalts to achieve in the past he value of an 1 exalt would become apocalyptic. I guess at least the rich ppl would have a while to stack them up as no one with sense would actually be using essences until they had access to lvl8 masters, which is a terrible situation for a league mod even by itself.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

It is interesting how first pages have only happy people and later there is a lot more of of dissapointed people.

Disappointed people are the people who want freebies, its no surprise really because that just shows the entitlement precedence perandus league set.

Even people who are casual think that being able to craft like that would defeat the purpose of end game crafting and trivialize it.

I really wish they would have stuck to the "we arent going to make a crafting league" statement they made before, comments in this thread are a prime example of why.

Edit - Holy crap, if you think the comments here are bad dont look at the reddit rofl. Just looked there myself because i knew id get a chuckle.

Its cute how you talk about entitlement when the rich vocal minority crusades on these forums any time literally anything threatens their ability to deprive others of means to enjoy the game at the same level they do.

A few exalts is not much to you? Its surprising then that most of the new players I meet struggle to get together one exalt let alone "several" to craft one rare. People who haven't been entrenched in this game for years do not have several exalts to throw away. They often struggle to just get the rares together they need so they aren't forked in every map.

A few exalts is not too much for me after playing for two years but I will not be so callous as to think my situation applies to everyone as ample experience tells me it does not. Also I am barely, so very barely interested in this league at this point. After it was initially released I thought it would be the means to make the decent rares I roll or craft, just right with that last mod that I need, but now its another RNG shitfest. At this point I might just run for the rewards and quit the league as soon as I get them, which will likely not even last me more than a week into it. Will I miss this content if it never makes it into standard? No.

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Zrevnur wrote:

If the intention was to "make rares better" then the essence system did not accomplish that. Quite the opposite. Rares (without Essences) are actually made comparatively worse. Or rephrased: You make a new type of item "essence rares" which is strictly better than the old type of item "rares". One consequence will be that anything rare which drops from monsters or boxes will have comparatively less value. I really do not understand such "solutions" at all - they just make the problem worse.
If (for example) they would work more like Exalts instead of like Chaos then Essences would help make rares better. Instead of replacing them with a stronger non-droppable type of rare.

This guy has a strong point. Currently the most efficient method is almost not picking dropped rares at all, in essence league this effect will just skyrocket. Some demanded bases with high item level, (i.e. hubris circlet, astral plate, vaal regalia) will probably be more wanted normal than rare as drops, because some essences needs scouring. That's just making rares worse...

You want to make rares better? remove from the pool some affixes 99,9% of builds consider trash, like flat life regen, block/stun recovery, light radius and low accuracy, phys reflect to melee attackers, etc, as they are very niche make those essence affixes (or mastercraft mods), so the awkward builds using them still have access.