I actually just ran some quick calculations for this.
Assuming lv21 gems (lv4 in Empower's case), Slower projectiles still wins, which is great because it's cheaper.
Empower 4 is 39.76% more damage on Explosive Arrow, while Slower Projectiles is 30% more projectile damage. However, the difference is that Empower only increases the initial Explosive Arrow damage, while Slower projectiles double dips on the ignite, which ends up being 69% more damage in total (initial hit + ignite).
meh, thought I would be better, but forgot about double dips. TY for pointing out. Now I wont go for such anytimesoon.
Noob question here: when to use + arrow rearguard vs. fire damage leeched as life. Which is for general clear vs. single target? Thx!
Leech for clearing - +1 for bosses. Thats what I am using(dont have any leech on gear, just regen and doing fine - I am witch so far). These 0.2% wont help u much vs bosses, but +1 arrow helps by a lot. Much ezier to hit.
Concerning leech, I decided to play with a Doryani's:
I also don't want to run a second off-hand setup if I can help it and after playing with a bunch of different options actually think this belt works very well in this build. I'm surprised I hadn't seen it mentioned, maybe I missed it. Anyroad, I do lose about 410 hp when taking off my rare, but this belt gives a great damage boost, leech, and that extra bump to ignite chance makes it very close to 100%. I also find that with the extreme mobility, and ~80% armor that I have with my basalt and rumi's up, that the 400hp becomes kind of negligible (speaking from a current SC player of course).
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iwonderwice wrote:
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JoopO wrote:
Noob question here: when to use + arrow rearguard vs. fire damage leeched as life. Which is for general clear vs. single target? Thx!
Leech for clearing - +1 for bosses. Thats what I am using(dont have any leech on gear, just regen and doing fine - I am witch so far). These 0.2% wont help u much vs bosses, but +1 arrow helps by a lot. Much ezier to hit.
Edit: I'm glad I took the time to post this. I actually think the main clearing link could get away without a chance to ignite gem. Taking out the gem would put you at 55% IIRC while using a flask with the ascendancies and 20% EA. And if you've gotten into the habit of decoy toteming against a wall and spaming the GMP setup at the wall on bosses like I have, then ignite chance becomes less of an issue (a non-issue completely if the boss can even be ignited). This would free up another slot that you could use for more sweet sweet double dipping. Maybe
Last edited by Andizlack#4996 on Mar 19, 2017, 3:05:38 AM
I actually just ran some quick calculations for this.
Assuming lv21 gems (lv4 in Empower's case), Slower projectiles still wins, which is great because it's cheaper.
Empower 4 is 39.76% more damage on Explosive Arrow, while Slower Projectiles is 30% more projectile damage. However, the difference is that Empower only increases the initial Explosive Arrow damage, while Slower projectiles double dips on the ignite, which ends up being 69% more damage in total (initial hit + ignite).
Just wanna clarify something, I know that the explosion is a Secondary damage type; but isn't the ignite damage still gets derived from that same explosion and not the initial hit? Which if that's the case, benefited from the higher gem rank due to higher damage per fuse hence the double dipping applies either way?
When I said "initial Explosive Arrow damage" I was actually referring to the explosion (the arrow's impact damage is basically 0). Thus you are right that Empower increases the explosion's damage, which is what I was referring to which is increased by 39.76%. The ignite scales off this damage, as you said. This means that in total you will deal 39.75% more damage, as both the explosion and ignite are increased by that amount. This is NOT double dipping though. It's simply the ignite being bigger because the initial hit was bigger. The 39.75% are not applied twice.
The double dipping comes in with Slower Projectiles: it increases the explosion damage by 30% (as the explosion is scaled with projectile damage), which in turn means the ignite deals 30% more damage as well being based on the explosion. However, the ignite damage is now again icnreased by 30% because projectile damage double dips.
This means that the ignite is increased by 30% because the initial hit was bigger and another multiplicative 30% because proectile damage double dips and applies again to the ignite.
Ah gotcha I keep forgetting that projectile multipliers affect secondary damage as well, Thanks for the replies btw, appreciate it.
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Andizlack wrote:
Concerning leech, I decided to play with a Doryani's:
I also don't want to run a second off-hand setup if I can help it and after playing with a bunch of different options actually think this belt works very well in this build. I'm surprised I hadn't seen it mentioned, maybe I missed it. Anyroad, I do lose about 410 hp when taking off my rare, but this belt gives a great damage boost, leech, and that extra bump to ignite chance makes it very close to 100%. I also find that with the extreme mobility, and ~80% armor that I have with my basalt and rumi's up, that the 400hp becomes kind of negligible (speaking from a current SC player of course).
"
iwonderwice wrote:
"
JoopO wrote:
Noob question here: when to use + arrow rearguard vs. fire damage leeched as life. Which is for general clear vs. single target? Thx!
Leech for clearing - +1 for bosses. Thats what I am using(dont have any leech on gear, just regen and doing fine - I am witch so far). These 0.2% wont help u much vs bosses, but +1 arrow helps by a lot. Much ezier to hit.
Edit: I'm glad I took the time to post this. I actually think the main clearing link could get away without a chance to ignite gem. Taking out the gem would put you at 55% IIRC while using a flask with the ascendancies and 20% EA. And if you've gotten into the habit of decoy toteming against a wall and spaming the GMP setup at the wall on bosses like I have, then ignite chance becomes less of an issue (a non-issue completely if the boss can even be ignited). This would free up another slot that you could use for more sweet sweet double dipping. Maybe
Tbh I don't think I've met with any leech issues while playing this build. I think I've even opened up a Chayula breach in red map with close to 70% pack size + beyond and still did just fine. It might've gone smoother maybe idk, but since you're a Pathfinder you could just spam life flasks and be at 100% life all the time.
Edit: Trying doryani's out atm, can't really say, need to do a few more reds to see whether I like it or not, but I am now dropping GMP and just use SP all the time with Dying Sun. I was thinking of the possibilities of Doryani allowing me to drop the life flask so I can bring an Overflowing Chalice so I can have a better assurance on Dying Sun's uptime, but Life Flask still seems too good on a Pathfinder to pass up.
Edit 2: As guessed, Doryani's leech doesn't apply to secondary damage, so I barely felt any difference when it comes to sustain. The fire damage is nice tho but still I don't think it's worth losing 400 life and a bit of extra regen. Going back to a normal rare belt for now.
Last edited by ultimatecat#0489 on Mar 19, 2017, 10:58:58 AM
After looking at some of the gear on thread participants, I am beginning to wonder if this build requires accuracy? For example, the guy posting above me has no accuracy pieces, and I checked the "Gear in Essence" part of the OP, and he has one accuracy piece. I have 3 pieces with accuracy, and I believe I have around 88% hit.
Last edited by subiedude8#6901 on Mar 20, 2017, 9:52:48 AM
-The additional arrow corruption is very useful. If you have it and Dying Sun (gets an additional projectile with %Flask effect) you get 5 arrows without GMP, which means that you can drop the AoE clear setup completely and use your single target setup for clear as well.
=
That sounds amazing. Dying Sun might be my next purchase.
Anyone here using this setup this league yet? Do you just not weapon swap at all then?
and die to reflect creep ;)
good call mate.
Btw - anytime u r able to get emp lvl 4 - use it instead of slowerproj. lvl 4 emp got better multiplier
Haven't really died to any single reflect creeps with this setup. Did you mean reflect maps?
After looking at some of the gear on thread participants, I am beginning to wonder if this build requires accuracy? For example, the guy posting above me has no accuracy pieces, and I checked the "Gear in Essence" part of the OP, and he has one accuracy piece. I have 3 pieces with accuracy, and I believe I have around 88% hit.
I've played with a few setups ranging from ~80% to ~93% to hit. It starts to get a little annoying sometimes for clearing below about 85%, but really not bad by any means. If you do the decoy totem against a wall and spam your clear speed setup to kill bosses (I've been having a good time with decoy totem + increased aoe + increased duration), this becomes completely a non issue. If you can spare the mods on your gloves and maybe 1 ring, I'd say it's probably worth it, especially if you use the single target setup the OP describes, otherwise I wouldn't really worry about it.
