So, I thought Less Duration was supposed to affect poison and bleed duration.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Less_Duration_Support

Specifically, read the grey part on all Support Gems

This is a Support Gem. It does not grant a bonus to your character, but skills in sockets connected to it. Place into an item socket connected to a socket containing the Active Skill Gem you wish to augment. Right click to remove from a socket.

"

Boem wrote:

The difference is global duration and local.

passive tree duration modifiers and item modifiers are global, skill gems are local.
(unless the item specifically states so)

Peace,

-Boem-

again, very clearly stated by GGG than skill duration nodes AND supports affect poison duration.


Also, with regards to global and local differences: by that logic, conc effect, slower projectiles, pierce, trap, mine, trap/mine damage, etc etc would not double dip for poison and bleed either, because they're 'local'. But we all know damn well that's not true.


Less duration being 'local' changes nothing; it's linked to EQ, it therefore *should* lower the duration of everything with a modifiable duration that EQ does, and that includes poison and bleed when those effects are also applied via EQ.

"

Shppy wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

The difference is global duration and local.

passive tree duration modifiers and item modifiers are global, skill gems are local.
(unless the item specifically states so)

Peace,

-Boem-

again, very clearly stated by GGG than skill duration nodes AND supports affect poison duration.


Also, with regards to global and local differences: by that logic, conc effect, slower projectiles, pierce, trap, mine, trap/mine damage, etc etc would not double dip for poison and bleed either, because they're 'local'. But we all know damn well that's not true.


Less duration being 'local' changes nothing; it's linked to EQ, it therefore *should* lower the duration of everything with a modifiable duration that EQ does, and that includes poison and bleed.

Poison and Bleed damage is based off the physical (for Bleed) or Physical and CHaos (for Poison). Any modifiers that would boost Physical and Chaos would off course modify Bleed/Poison damage.

This is like PoE 101.

Also, Less duration IS modifying everything earthquake does. It IS NOT modifying what Voidheart does, as it is not linked to Voidheart in any way.

Take off Voidheart, and Link Poison to Earthquake, and you will see it does reduce the duration of poison (and up the damage) because they are linked.

GGG specifically said skill duration should affect poison duration. If it is not affecting poison duration caused by Voidheart, then either that's a bug, or, they worded their answers *really* badly.

"

Rafein wrote:

Poison and Bleed damage is based off the physical (for Bleed) or Physical and CHaos (for Poison). Any modifiers that would boost Physical and Chaos would off course modify Bleed/Poison damage.

This is like PoE 101.

Also, Less duration IS modifying everything earthquake does. It IS NOT modifying what Voidheart does, as it is not linked to Voidheart in any way.

For it being PoE 101, you sure are failing the course pretty badly.


All of those supports I listed double dip for bleed and poison, regardless of where the bleed and poison are coming from. They're not just modifying the damage of the hit that causes them, they're modifying the DoTs themselves a second time. This, despite them being 'support gems', just like Less Duration, yet strangely Less Duration isn't modifying the DoTs themselves.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

GGG specifically said skill duration should affect poison duration. If it is not affecting poison duration caused by Voidheart, then either that's a bug, or, they worded their answers *really* badly.

Seems like it, yeah.

"

Shppy wrote:

"

Boem wrote:

The difference is global duration and local.

passive tree duration modifiers and item modifiers are global, skill gems are local.
(unless the item specifically states so)

Peace,

-Boem-

again, very clearly stated by GGG than skill duration nodes AND supports affect poison duration.


Also, with regards to global and local differences: by that logic, conc effect, slower projectiles, pierce, trap, mine, trap/mine damage, etc etc would not double dip for poison and bleed either, because they're 'local'. But we all know damn well that's not true.


Less duration being 'local' changes nothing; it's linked to EQ, it therefore *should* lower the duration of everything with a modifiable duration that EQ does, and that includes poison and bleed when those effects are also applied via EQ.

Please link "poison support" in your EQ set-up to understand what i am telling you.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : the bleed and poison are global modifiers being applied by the ring and have nothing to do with your link set-up.

However, increased duration modifiers from the passive tree and other global modifiers that apply to it will.

In the same case, increased duration will not effect bleed and poison.

I must be the only idiot using puncture gem with less duration, since puncture has it's own duration thus its duration is actually lessened by less duration lol. Well from what I could tell the poison duration on max frenzy charges from a snakebite is still 2 seconds at least.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Poison

The base damage per second dealt by a given application of poison equals 10% of the combined physical and chaos damage dealt by the hit which applied that particular instance of poison.[1]

As a damage over time effect, poison's damage can be affected positively or negatively by some damage stats. Notably, stats modifying spell damage and attack damage do not apply to poison as poison is not a spell or attack.[4] The following stats will directly affect the damage of poison; note that some of these stats apply only to the poison whereas some may also apply to the skill that triggered it:

Damage over Time
Poison Damage
Damage
Chaos Damage
Area Damage if applied by an Area skill[5][6]
Projectile Damage if applied by a Projectile skill[1]
Trap Damage if applied by a Trap
Mine Damage if applied by a Mine
Totem Damage if applied by a Totem
Minion Damage if applied by a Minion

As Voidheart is causing the poison/bleed, only the first 4 apply.

"

Boem wrote:

Please link "poison support" in your EQ set-up to understand what i am telling you.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : the bleed and poison are global modifiers being applied by the ring and have nothing to do with your link set-up.

However, increased duration modifiers from the passive tree and other global modifiers that apply to it will.

In the same case, increased duration will not effect bleed and poison.

So, here's the thing, I just decided to do a bunch of testing and... it kinda seems like NO ONE here is right (including myself).


So, first test, the thing that prompted this thread: EQ-Less duration-Voidheart:

2 second poison, 5 second bleed.

Second test, EQ-Less Duration-Poison Support (and Voidheart unequipped):

2 second poison, no bleed


Third test, EQ-Increased Duration-Voidheart (inc duration at 48% increased)

~3 second poison, 5 second bleed

Fourth test, EQ-Increased Duration-Poison support (again w/ no Voidheart)

~3 second poison, no bleed



So... yeah. Increased duration support DOES work, whether poison comes from voidheart or the support is irrelevant, bleed duration isn't modified even when voidheart's poison duration is, and Less Duration at the very least will not cut poison's duration below its base regardless of the source. I guess I ought to test with both increased and less duration linked and see what happens, see if it's just that less duration doesn't act or just that there's a 2 second minimum.



***Addendum:

K, so I ran a couple more tests:

Fifth test, EQ-Less Duration-Increased Duration-Voidheart (combined duration modifier is roughly '16% less')

~3 second poison, 5 second bleed

Sixth test, EQ-Less Duration-Increased Duration-Poison support (no Voidheart)

~3 second poison, no bleed


So yeah, it's not even that poison has some kinda 'minimum duration', Less Duration just straight-up doesn't touch its duration, while Increased Duration does.


Also, one more test: EQ-Voidheart, no duration support gems, but now with 45% increased skill duration in the passive tree:

~3 second poison, 5 second bleed.


Even skill duration in the passive tree doesn't affect bleed. Which makes the skill duration in Duelist's "Dirty Techniques" cluster kinda a ripoff. Puncture can probably be affected, as it has an explicit duration listed, but I guess other sources of bleed can't be.


*final addendum, i swear: Tested out viperstrike and puncture too, with various duration mechs; they work the way you would expect, Less Duration Support cuts their duration, Increased Duration Support ups their duration, and passive tree duration does too.



Conclusion: these are some fucked up mechanics.