[2.3] RF Discharger (Fast Clear) - Freeze Prolif [Budget Friendly] - Uber Lab Viable

what kinda jewels should we be looking for? I've grabbed some cast speed ones, cause they double dip on elemental spell cast speed, to make things smoother, is there anything essential outside of capped res/necessary int?

Are you playing HC or SC?

Personally I focused on Life and Area Damage (since it rolls higher than %Damage and buffs Righteous Fire and Discharge). Cast speed is a good idea since the cast time for Discharge slows us down.

I'll put some effort into adding a Jewel section when I add the new videos on Tuesday. I'd suggest making the effort to at least get basic capped (135%) off gear before getting it on jewels, although getting Ele Weakness capped would be great, but much harder to do just from our gear.

I'll try exclusively stacking lots of cast speed and see if it's worth giving up some of the %Life and Area Damage.

Hi, first off I'd like to say this is a great build, but needs work as far as I can see.
Spent most of last night building it on my 96 marauder.
Trying not to be too critical, but at the same time I have to question why you took RT.
This removes any and all chance of discharge using a critical strike, thus removing DPS.
Since we are not building to cater to a crit build, RT isn't needed to make sure romiras procs most of the time anyway. Not that it would matter either way, since most of the DPS comes from the endurance charges. I think RT stops you from igniting/freezing too, not sure though? I sure haven't hit any so far.

Also, using elemental equilibrium is great.. Assuming you're not using RF. Since this applies damage (fire damage) constantly every tick, your enemy will always be resistant to fire (bad), and vulnerable to lightning (OK) and cold (useless).
Taking off elemental equilibrium makes RF damage more consistent and your discharge damage more consistent as well. Let's face it, as soon as you add +1 or +2 people in a higher map - you're not going to be one shotting anything anymore. The same situation could be applied to +life, +fire res or just plain red maps.

I haven't been using vortex, but I fear even with this, half of the time monsters would still be vulnerable to the wrong elements. This also takes up valuable space for other skills, such as vaal molten shell - a great defencive ability but also one that we could be using to really boost our consistent DPS, or with the right links - effectively clear better.

Using gloves such as wyrmsign would allow us to run RF or vaal molten shell in a 5L, and the spare points taken from EE and RT could be used to take another jewel and get % res on it (that those gloves are lacking) this is only a theory though. I've also thought about running scold's birdle and utilising this with vaal molten shell in the build as well.

Instead of using a low level CWDT, golem and warlords mark (x2), a high level CWDT and golem can be used to allow greater regen at higher levels.
The warlords mark can be replaced with a max level flammability or elemental weakness (better for parties), in the same curse on hit reckoning setup - but with an added Endurance charge on melee stun support.


Hope this isn't too much of a read, would be nice to talk things out sometime, and these are just suggestions. Would love your feedback.

-Mag

Hey, thanks for taking the time to experiment with the build!

I have no doubt that they're parts of the build that can be improved on, and I'll discuss your suggestions below.

Firstly may I just point out that Elemental Equilibrium works on hits? Righteous Fire doesn't activate it since it doesn't hit. I mainly use Vortex for added safety, the slow/freeze allows us a lot of breathing room in fights (especially when you're trying to avoid all hits - despite our decent tank), but its resetting of EE is nice too. EE also triggered by our Shield Charge and Reckoning (from the +cold damage to attack I advised to grab on gloves or ammy).

If you were to replace Vortex, you would probably need to either find a new way to trigger the chill, or need to replace Hypothermia as a gem. We lose 40% more damage against chilled enemies, but perhaps there's alternatives that make up for it? Will give VMS a shot.

These are mechanics that were really quick to retest for piece of mind, perhaps you have +Fire or +Lightning on gear? Check the tooltip for Shield Charge and Reckoning and make sure the only elemental damage they do is Cold. If you're not using Doryani's check the weapon for +ele damage and + ele damage to spells too.

You may be right about using Vaal Molten Shell! I'll try it out in place of Vortex and let you know, but I've been really enjoying the slow from Vortex in maps with scarier mods, I'll let you know :)

Using a higher level CWDT would mean that it would trigger less, having Warlords Mark exclusively on Reckoning wasn't enough for me, I really enjoy the application from CWDT too. Warlords mark application from both of these sources allows for (a) Leech (b) Endurance Charges on a more regular basis, especially in maps with monsters cannot be stunned/monster life rolls. Instead of relying on enduring cry from pack to pack we use it far less regularly (and not wait on the cooldown), since endurance charge on melee stun doesn't trigger as often/at all. I've been considering dropping faster attacks from that setup for Stun/Melee Phys for higher maps, but we lose clear speed. I've been running T11s/12 comfortably with my setup, I'll have to maybe adjust for 14s.

The extra regen from a higher level stone golem could count to about another 1% life regen, which is great, but with more regular application of Warlords Mark as long as you don't take too long to setup your discharge it should me more effective thanks to the leech.

I don't play much in parties, but Flammability/Elemental Weakness would be better. I initially had EE in the setup when I was still testing things out and I found that I didn't need the damage boost (but maybe I will for 14+) so I opted for Warlords Mark for leech and charge generation. Exiles are adaptable creatures, I'm sure you can choose what's best for you :) I'll be sure to test out the damage boost vs the warlords mark in T14s when I start running them, but I think the leech is really useful.

Wyrmsign is a great idea! I thought about it in one of the earlier versions of my build. The 5th link would probably be Increased Burning Damage (think that's the only remaining damage boosting link that would work). I actually decided against it back when I was in a ComK version of the build. I'll try it out again... The benefit would need to be substantial to give up the Life/Area Damage/Cast Speed I'm getting on my jewels right now in order to compensate (depends on what I find I guess). It would also need to cover the 15% more damage we lose from Conc Effect levels. I'll test this out soon too (along with crit over RT, another Vestige of the ComK build i was working on - perhaps I can find a way to scale crit a little, reflect would become a problem though - as things its not really).

It's also worth noting that I'd rather not risk Wyrmsign's "lose endurance charges on rampage end" in Lab/Atziri/Tougher Maps since I manage when it's safe to Discharge more closely, and stressing about losing charges would be such a bother. Still worth testing out to see if we can make it work though.

It's also worth noting that we're using Elemental Focus on our Discharge. Giving up the status ailment application from crits isn't a factor for this build.

It's always fun talking about builds, thanks for taking the time mate. I'll test out your ideas as well (when I can, bit busy till Tuesday) and see how well they work for me :)

Edit:some grammar
Edit2: We don't get enough crit (even if we abuse the 3 ele tags Discharge has for jewels) for crit scaling to be realistic, and then we're giving up HP, cast speed and damage for occasionaly dealing more damage... BUT it could proc often enough off Shield Charge for Elemental Overload to be useful. Will see how reliable the proc is, and if it's possible/reasonable for us to boost phys crit a bit, since we're so close to some nice melee crit nodes. Your question sparked some boosts for the build :D

Hey there

I didn't realise/wasn't completely sure about RF proc with EE on hit, I didn't test it, I was just going off of mob descriptions - which were most of the time vulnerable to the wrong elements. I double triple checked my gear for extra damage from other sources; I have nothing else other than +cold. I really hope you're right when it comes to RF working in that way, though it would cause additional problems (and probably has done) for me when using vaal molten against packs when I have EE.
I'm assuming it's down to a combination of A- no use of vortex, B - packs being too large or too spread out for me to effectively hit them all with reckoning (possibly include other trigger gems or AOE support to combat this?) and/or C - vaal molten shell.
Generally though, I find it much easier to just leave it out. Too much management. It's completely useless in parties since everybody's damage is all over the place unless you all have the same build. The same with Warlord's mark - of course it can be switched out for something else such as Flammability or the better, party-focused gem, elemental weakness - but these are both blue gems, not red. I mean, it has its uses, but people tend to prefer utility curses (temp chains, enfeeble) or damage curses (ele weakness, vuln, etc)

Coming from a long time spectral throw player, the clear speed really isn't fast enough for me, compared to what would be achieved in a party - so that's where I head for most of my XP with this character. Hence the constant reference to party-based issues.
No doubt it's better for bosses or those tough higher maps you'd rather run solo, but still.

When it comes to all the gems that we lose crit with, or status effects with, I'm pretty sure they could be replaced with other gems, gaining damage but still keeping crit and status effects - I mean shock in itself is +damage and ignite helps to finish off low life packs too. I haven't got many first hand suggestions for replacements, but don't exclude the idea :)

With 20% endurance charge on hit from a monster, endurance charge on hit from shield charge and reckoning, not to mention enduring cry - I would say that's more than reliable enough. Replacing for flammability helps a lot for DPS, mainly for RF if nothing else.
The higher level golem has allowed me to do vulnerability and -20% regen maps. It's okay if it doesn't respawn that often - it has a lot of extra health to make up for that. Mainly you'd only see the benefits when swapping out your curse gem though.

I definitely think wyrmsign would be the way to go for mapping. Maybe a pair of rare gloves to switch for bosses though, as it could create problems like you said.
Rampage would give us added DPS - and it's practically impossible to run out if you're in a good party. I only meant for you to replace one or two jewels though - our gear may be different, and I'm way overcapped even with no gloves. I think spell damage w/shield is probably better than cast speed on jewels, though area damage and life are definitely to go for first.
I also hear burning damage is more of a priority link for RF than we think. Might want to include it regardless; at level 19 it's 58% more burn damage.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, hope something can come of my ramblings :)

PoE, while complex, is very particular about phrasing - and while there are some exceptions, it is mostly consistent. Righteous Fire does not 'hit' and therefore cannot trigger EE, but can benefit from the reduced Fire Res we get from it.

A simple test would be to link Righteous Fire - Curse on Hit - Warlords Mark, you will see that it has no active link icons on the tooltip image, if it cannot trigger on hit effects it cannot trigger EE.

It's also worth remembering that Damage over Time effects don't trigger Hit effects either. Vortex does initial cold damage which acts as a 'hit' triggering EE, but as it remains its main function for us is the slow/freeze as well as activating the Hypothermia support. As I mention throughout the guide we need to make regular use of shield charge for Power Charge generation, Fortify activation and triggering EE (I'll read through the guide again and see if I explained any of the mechanics incorrectly).

If you're using VMS it will be triggering EE, I'll have time to play later today, I'll see if I can find a way to work it in, but I'm currently focusing on some other parts of the build.

As a side note: Increased Burning Damage support is additive - not multiplicative (Increased instead of MORE).

Shock gives 50% increased damage (additive), its nothing to laugh at but definitely not as strong as our stacking of multiplicative boosts. I'm looking into working in crit right now. Ignite should probably double dip for us with the ele damage from Doryani's, but we'll see how big a deal that is.

I should also point out that maybe you should consider running a lower level CWDT with a curse and just manually casting the Golem if you feel the bonus is that strong? Leech is very strong for us.

Links to try (after dropping RT)

Discharge - Hypothermia - ICS - IAOE/Conc - ICD - Elemental Focus


Some simple RF calculations


Parties

If you're in a party there's a good chance there's people with curses that are far more buffed than ours, but before we even consider that it's worth pointing out that most of the time 1 or 2 ranged crit builds will carry the entire party while everyone just stacks Vaal Haste and keeps up - at least that's the little experience I have with parties. Despite it seeming less popular lately, a LA Pathfinder with a 10ex harb could probably carry most parties to the point that besides auras everyone else is just along for the ride - maybe that's part of what you're experiencing? Try experiment with those crit links and let me know

Keeping the volls devotion section of the post instead of this post as well

Howdy,

Just wanted to come by and give some suggestions. I initially was going to go RF discharge, but I enjoyed the consistency of having all endurance charges up at all times.

Couple of things to note:

1) RF Does not in fact proc EE (correct!)

2) For your concern about wyrmsign (i.e don't want to lose charges) you could always use a Fragility Jewel in your tree for -1 endurance charges. Just a suggestion if you really want to try and squeeze them in. This would prevent the rampage and lose all endurance charges proc on the unique.

3) I am stealing two great ideas from you.

a) Shield Charge + ECOMS ...never even thought about this.
b) I was using Ice Nova to proc EE because it has higher crit. Higher crit only matters because I am also using Elemental Overload node which I almost feel like is MADE for RF. I will be trying vortex this weekend to see if I can notice the 1% less base crit. If not it is definitely superior for the degen.
c) Right now i'm using Tempest Shield on CWDT...but I will probably switch to stone golem. I always seem to forget about it. Thanks for the ideas.

Now for all of the ideas I've stolen from you...if you really want to make your character OP...these are awesome on Prophecy and is seriously OP. I am wearing 2 and have a total of 10 end charges (w/o +1 on belt or boots).



:D

Cheers and nice write up!!

Thanks Prisus, will have a look at what you mentioned

I'd have thought that the Fragility Jewel would just results in -1 max end charge, instead of limiting how many endurance charges we can gain in total? Will have to see

Thanks for the kind words too :)